Another Open Carry Texas success story ruins it for Washingtonians.....

Primus · Jul 2, 2014

()pen(arry said:
I'm not sure what this pronoun represents. This is an Open Carry forum. You've made numerous representations of being a police officer. If that's the case, then you don't open carry, you cop carry. The two are unrelated. What do you mean by "us"?

EMNofSeattle said:
maybe people who support gun rights in general?

Not sure what "cop carry" is but if at a store on with my gun on my hip with NO badge shown then I'm no different then you.

Also emn nailed it as well. Regardless of my carry and certainly regardless of my profession I can and still do support gun rights in general.

Back to your scheduled programming.... Guys not getting that an request means they don't want you there...

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MAC702 · Jul 2, 2014

DocWalker said:
Actually if you read the article and the specifics they didn't us the word "BAN" they said they would "respectfully ask" which doesn't actually ban them. Not that I would ever shop at Target again myself. Technically all they can do is ask you to leave just like any other store that hasn't said anything so there technically isn't a BAN.

Actually, their word choice has nothing to do with my statement. Did you mean to quote someone else?

Aside, these places take weeks or months to formulate their policies. They know the difference between long guns and sidearms, and can easily ask that long guns not be brought in. They are CHOOSING to announce they are anti-carry, period, regardless of their choice of words and threats of type of enforcement.

I like knowing.

WalkingWolf · Jul 2, 2014

Dave_pro2a said:
"Firearms are no longer permitted on properties owner or operated by Target Inc, regardless of state laws on carrying firearms. Violators will be issued a no-trespass order."

Edited because of misunderstanding the post above was sarcasm.

OC for ME · Jul 2, 2014

- even in communities where it is permitted by law.

Guns are banned. I don't shop at Target, never have. Their ban is meaningless to me. I spend on my local Mom & Pop shops. Never had a problem and my OC'd gat is fine by them.

tombrewster421 · Jul 2, 2014

EMNofSeattle said:
I'm going to avoid the government philosophy debates for awhile

You do realize this is the most important question right. By not answering this one question that actually has everything to do with what we are discussing, you are proving my point.

Bottom line is that you are blaming a victim. No different from what happened in California with unloaded OC of handguns. They were exercising their only option to carry a handgun. Now they are forced to carry long guns as their only legal option for self defense.

Stop throwing gun owners under the bus.

Dave_pro2a · Jul 2, 2014

DocWalker said:
Please cite the location of this. All I can find is "respectfully request" from target.

Yeah I just made that up. It's how you would actually write a store policy, if you really wanted to ban firearms from Target... and if you wanted to really take a stand that would alienate a segment of the population that were potential customers.

It would be followed up with:

1) Posting signage at the entrance, especially in states where proper signage actually makes it illegal to carry within the premises.
2) Actually calling police and filing no-trespass orders when people break store policy.

WalkingWolf · Jul 2, 2014

Dave_pro2a said:
Yeah I just made that up. It's how you would actually write a store policy, if you really wanted to ban firearms from Target... and if you wanted to really take a stand that would alienate a segment of the population that were potential customers.

It would be followed up with:

1) Posting signage at the entrance, especially in states where proper signage actually makes it illegal to carry within the premises.
2) Actually calling police and filing no-trespass orders when people break store policy.

I misunderstood you reasoning for the post, a sarcasm smiley would have helped.

Dave_pro2a · Jul 2, 2014

WalkingWolf said:
Either this is a citable quote or it is made up fiction, which is it?

You want to interject your opinion the lose the quote marks. Misrepresentation is deception, and that is not honest.

Yeah, but see how understandable the intent was? Unambiguous

Firearms... banned!

That is how a real store policy is written, not like some fake-feel-good press release.

Primus · Jul 2, 2014

Dave_pro2a said:
Is your house regularly open to the public as place of business?

Does a request carry the weight of law? Do you as an LEO 'enforce' requests?

How ya like "Dong" apples bro?

Do no shirt no shoes signs hold the weight of law? Probably not.

But legally I can request you to keep a shirt on in my store.

And you missed the point...... Doesn't need to be enforceable by law or leos..... Its a damn request by the owner.

Doesnt need to be signed in triplicate notarized with an attached copy of the local state and federal law that gives him authority to demand you not be there to be delivered by a full battalion sized infantry element led by Jesus for someone to get the hint to keep guns out.

Either you respect property rights or you don't.

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WalkingWolf · Jul 2, 2014

Dave_pro2a said:
Yeah, but see how understandable the intent was? Unambiguous Firearms... banned!

That is how a real store policy is written, not like some fake-feel-good press release.

I know that now, and I edited my post. Thank you for clarifying.

Dave_pro2a · Jul 2, 2014

Primus said:
Not sure what "cop carry" is but if at a store on with my gun on my hip with NO badge shown then I'm no different then you.

I suspect that is BULL CRAP.

Normally LEOs can carry off duty, even in areas prohibited to 'ordinary peons.' In fact afaik some departments require officers to be armed off duty.

Then there's the national LEO CCW law. Some pigs really are more able to enter a Target store carrying a gun than others. But don't let reality interfere with your Kumbaya 'we're all equal' BS.

()pen(arry · Jul 2, 2014

EMNofSeattle said:
everything. WW isn't convinced because the language isn't strong enough, what do they have to write to convince him they're actually asking people not carry guns in the store....

I still don't understand what mealy-mouthed corporate policies have to do with you making an ignorant white boy attempt at emulating the crassest stereotypes of black urban lingo. Are you suggesting that WalkingWolf only understands gangsta? Are you suggesting that the only possible next step in strenuous wording is to go from questionable request to gang banger talk? Are you suggesting that the two options for American language are "polite" and "thug"?

In three letters, Erik, WTF?

EMNofSeattle · Jul 2, 2014

tombrewster421 said:
You do realize this is the most important question right. By not answering this one question that actually has everything to do with what we are discussing, you are proving my point.

Bottom line is that you are blaming a victim. No different from what happened in California with unloaded OC of handguns. They were exercising their only option to carry a handgun. Now they are forced to carry long guns as their only legal option for self defense.

Stop throwing gun owners under the bus.

Victim of what?

do you now consider being banned from private property to be tyranny? you question is unrelated to the topic at hand, no one has advocated for any laws except legalizing handgun OC in this thread!? how does government even factor into it?

this is about a private group, doing something legal, albiet unwise, and getting people asked to leave from major businesses.

Texas should legalize handgun OC, but that doesn't make it the best idea PR wise to strut an AR through the shopping mall.

There is no debate to have on government, this is a private group, getting banned from a private business, because of lobbying from another private group.

WalkingWolf · Jul 2, 2014

Primus said:
Do no shirt no shoes signs hold the weight of law? Probably not.

But legally I can request you to keep a shirt on in my store.

And you missed the point...... Doesn't need to be enforceable by law or leos..... Its a damn request by the owner.

Doesnt need to be signed in triplicate notarized with an attached copy of the local state and federal law that gives him authority to demand you not be there to be delivered by a full battalion sized infantry element led by Jesus for someone to get the hint to keep guns out.

Either you respect property rights or you don't.

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So will you honor that request while on duty?

Dave_pro2a · Jul 2, 2014

WalkingWolf said:
I know that now, and I edited my post. Thank you for clarifying.

No prob, next time I'll use ' instead of ".

Sometimes I forget some readers are actually educated. Must be due to reading posts from Primus and EMNseattle

EMNofSeattle · Jul 2, 2014

()pen(arry said:
I still don't understand what mealy-mouthed corporate policies have to do with you making an ignorant white boy attempt at emulating the crassest stereotypes of black urban lingo. Are you suggesting that WalkingWolf only understands gangsta? Are you suggesting that the only possible next step in strenuous wording is to go from questionable request to gang banger talk? Are you suggesting that the two options for American language are "polite" and "thug"?

In three letters, Erik, WTF?

hyperbole for dramatic effect. kind of like comparing being asked to not bring a gun to private business to being raped, I don't see you climbing all over that one...

()pen(arry · Jul 2, 2014

Primus said:
Not sure what "cop carry" is but if at a store on with my gun on my hip with NO badge shown then I'm no different then you.

Cop carry is the super-privilege afford to police officers to behave generally as they please, regardless of law or norm. Whether you're on or off duty, badged or not badged, you are carrying, ultimately, under the privilege of being a member of an elevated caste. In any situation wherein the legality or seemliness of you carrying openly came into question, your ultimately argument and defense would lie in your status as a police officer. Because of this, you never open carry. You cop carry.

Primus · Jul 2, 2014

Dave_pro2a said:
I suspect that is BULL CRAP.

Normally LEOs can carry off duty, even in areas prohibited to 'ordinary peons.' In fact afaik some departments require officers to be armed off duty.

Then there's the national LEO CCW law. Some pigs really are more able to enter a Target store carrying a gun than others. But don't let reality interfere with your Kumbaya 'we're all equal' BS.

Oh I see.. Forgot that xray vision.... Of I'm at the gas pump with a glock on my hip and your at a pump with a glock neither have badge but somehow its still different to general public who we are supposed to normalize it to...

Take your hurt feelings somewhere else. This thread is about guys not being able to carry in stores anymore.

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()pen(arry · Jul 2, 2014

EMNofSeattle said:
hyperbole for dramatic effect. kind of like comparing being asked to not bring a gun to private business to being raped, I don't see you climbing all over that one...

Hyperbole is the extreme exaggeration of something. You have nothing. No association between strong language and thug language. There is no hyperbole there. There is merely graceless ineptitude.

The reference to rape is a metaphor, Erik. Also not hyperbole. Whether one considers it an apt metaphor or not, it has nothing to do with your gross incompetence to make a coherent argument.

Dave_pro2a · Jul 2, 2014

()pen(arry said:
Cop carry is the super-privilege afford to police officers to behave generally as they please, regardless of law or norm. Whether you're on or off duty, badged or not badged, you are carrying, ultimately, under the privilege of being a member of an elevated caste. In any situation wherein the legality or seemliness of you carrying openly came into question, your ultimately argument and defense would lie in your status as a police officer. Because of this, you never open carry. You cop carry.

It's not regardless of the law (in theory).

Cops enjoy a special ability to more fully exercise their inalienable human rights without fear of legal repercussions, because their 'special elevated status' is actually codified in state and Federal law.

The thin blue line legal exemption is a whole different can of worms. It takes a lot for a brother in blue to not look the other way to protect their own.

Another Open Carry Texas success story ruins it for Washingtonians.....

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