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Thread: Georgia: OCer draws on OCer and demands ID

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    Georgia: OCer draws on OCer and demands ID

    http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2014/07...n-in-valdosta/
    VALDOSTA — On the first day of the new Georgia Safe Carry Protection Act, a misunderstanding between two armed men in a convenience store Tuesday led to a drawn firearm and a man’s arrest.

    “Essentially, it involved one customer with a gun on his hip when a second customer entered with a gun on his hip,” said Valdosta Police Chief Brian Childress.

    At approximately 3 p.m. Tuesday, police responded to a call regarding a customer dispute at the Enmark on the corner of Park Avenue and North Lee Street.

    A man carrying a holstered firearm entered the store to make a purchase. Another customer, also with a holstered firearm, approached him and demanded to see his identification and firearms license, according to the Valdosta Police Department report.

    The customer making demands for ID pulled his firearm from its holster but never pointed it at the other customer, who said he was not obligated to show any permits or identification.

    He demanded the man’s ID again. Undeterred by the drawn gun, the man paid for his items, left the store and called for police.

    Authorities arrested Ronald Williams, 62, on a charge of disorderly conduct, related to the pulling of a weapon inside of the store, according to the VPD. Police confiscated Williams’ weapon and took him to the Lowndes County Jail.

    The police chief said no one can demand a person to show their gun permit. Under the new law, he as police chief and his officers cannot demand to see a firearms permit, Childress said.

    “This is an example of my concern with the new gun law that people will take the law into their own hands which we will not tolerate,” Childress said.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Our own worst enemies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Our own worst enemies.
    Yup ... but I laughed when reading it...

    The other OCer just left him hanging ! LOL

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    Just as for a cop, "Am I free to go?" SHUN ICKY
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    WOW, this could have been a real ugly situation. In any case a black eye for OC.

    I trust the State of Georgia will be revoking any and all weapon permits or licenses of the defendant if said defendant is guilt of the charges?

    My .02

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    WOW, this could have been a real ugly situation. In any case a black eye for OC. I trust the State of Georgia will be revoking any and all weapon permits or licenses of the defendant if said defendant is guilt of the charges? My .02 Regards CCJ
    On what legal grounds?

    2013-2014 Regular Session - HB 60 Firearms; certain laws regarding carrying and possession by retired judges; provide exemption

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20132014/144825.pdf
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Nothing in this article says it was two OCers, the only thing we can know for sure is that the victim did not conceal his handgun.

    What you guys want to bet this was one of those batshit insane CCers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    On what legal grounds?

    2013-2014 Regular Session - HB 60 Firearms; certain laws regarding carrying and possession by retired judges; provide exemption

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20132014/144825.pdf
    Violation of Title 16 section 16 (11-39) for starters.

    Regards

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    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 07-03-2014 at 08:59 PM.
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    Georgia law probably didn't address the possibility that Valdosta's village idiot would own a handgun, and then would appoint himself unofficial Marshal of his domain. They couldn't have reasonably been expected to foresee a confrontation of this type. It's a good thing the OC'er kept his cool, and it's a good thing for the village idiot that the OC'er didn't feel that his LIFE WAS BEING THREATENED! Pax...
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    The story doesn't say "Valdosta SWAT" or "multiple officers converged" and details are sparse at best.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that the OCer that drew is a retired LEO and hence carried under the belief that his former employment would qualify him to carry with impunity and was unaware of any recent changes in law. Or he read about it or saw it on the news and simply decided to open carry without research. We will know if we hear about this one guy who OC'd and got himself arrested....
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    If there was no permit system scheme there would be no permits to demand, by anyone.

    Ingredients for morons~~take one idiot, add laws that encourage idiocy, mix well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If there was no permit system scheme there would be no permits to demand, by anyone.

    Ingredients for morons~~take one idiot, add laws that encourage idiocy, mix well.
    Right!


    Also, I see that FL still puts county info on their plates ... big argument over that a few yrs ago as I recall ..

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Violation of Title 16 section 16 ( 39-11) for starters.
    A conviction for disorderly conduct, 16-11-39 is not a disqualifier for a license issued under the authority of OCGA 16-11-129.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-03-2014 at 04:32 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Reading the story again, no where is it said that either one carried openly or concealed (although it's open to speculation how B would have known A was carrying if there was any concealment).

    • Essentially, it involved one customer with a gun on his hip when a second customer entered with a gun on his hip,” said Valdosta Police Chief Brian Childress.
    • A man carrying a holstered firearm entered the store to make a purchase. Another customer, also with a holstered firearm, approached him

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Party A could have been concealing poorly, I see it allot. It really puzzles me why people in an open carry state go though so much trouble to conceal only to do it so poorly that they are not concealing at all.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Party A could have been concealing poorly, I see it allot. It really puzzles me why people in an open carry state go though so much trouble to conceal only to do it so poorly that they are not concealing at all.
    Probably because they aren't going to that much trouble to conceal.
    I might pull my t-shirt over the S&W, but I'm not wearing a 'shoot me first' vest, or an unbuttoned shirt over my tee. It's been my experience that most people are too involved in their own petty lives to even look at another unless they have to avoid a collision (and often not even then).
    Personally, I find IWB to be uncomfortable so I rarely make more than a minimum effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Party A could have been concealing poorly, I see it allot. It really puzzles me why people in an open carry state go though so much trouble to conceal only to do it so poorly that they are not concealing at all.
    For one, Missouri doesn't have pre-emption for OC. But we do have a brief "open display of firearm" law. Which leads some of us (me) to care just a bit less about keeping it absolutely concealed when unsure of local ordinances.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000037.HTM

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    You guys should know that the instigator of this is mentally unstable. He apparently hangs out at this store and demands to see the I.D. of anyone buying cigarettes, alcohol, etc. soooo hopefully this will finally get him some help or his weapon carrying "privileges" taken away.

    --fwiw

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    So quickly you dismiss the obvious?

    THIS SHERIFF spoke out against the change in the law. Conveniently, someone clowns in exactly the manner he described "fears" for...

    Sherif probably knows this guy and set it up to make his argument seem valid. Most OC clowns are planted becasue they know their aregument is a lie and they have to manufacture the incendents they claim to be "afraid of."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    So quickly you dismiss the obvious?

    THIS SHERIFF spoke out against the change in the law. Conveniently, someone clowns in exactly the manner he described "fears" for...

    Sherif probably knows this guy and set it up to make his argument seem valid. Most OC clowns are planted becasue they know their aregument is a lie and they have to manufacture the incendents they claim to be "afraid of."
    While it might be very convenient for you allegation in your final paragraph to be true, I'm calling for a cite to support it as it seems you've made a statement of fact, not an opinion.

    And, thanks in advance for the pending cite.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    While it might be very convenient for you allegation in your final paragraph to be true, I'm calling for a cite to support it as it seems you've made a statement of fact, not an opinion.

    And, thanks in advance for the pending cite.
    If it could be proven, he'd be in his own jail. Derp. People in positions of power don't make official reports about their illegal activites and publish them in public record for me to cite for you. The notion that only official reports qualify as fact is an asinine convention. They're not going to rat themselves out and pubish it. I sometimes wonder what planet "internet peersonalities" live on...

    This is why the nation is lost. "Cite to Source" or "Cite to Authority" or we're just going to sit here and live in denial some more... It's easier to "Call BS" than it is to stand up for the Bill of Rights. Internet wariors, unite and do nothing!
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    <snip>

    This is why the nation is lost. "Cite to Source" or "Cite to Authority" or we're just going to sit here and live in denial some more... It's easier to "Call BS" than it is to stand up for the Bill of Rights. Internet wariors, unite and do nothing!
    Noooo.....we are going to sit here and call BS on your BS until you can "cite to authority" that your BS is not BS. Until then your BS is nothing but unsubstantiated BS.....or opinion if you prefer.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    So quickly you dismiss the obvious?

    THIS SHERIFF spoke out against the change in the law. Conveniently, someone clowns in exactly the manner he described "fears" for...

    Sherif [(The) Sheriff] probably knows this guy and set it up to make his argument seem valid. Most OC clowns are planted becasue [because] they know their aregument [argument] is a lie and they have to manufacture the incendents [incidents] they claim to be "afraid of."
    As 'the guy' seems to be well known in the area, and as 'the guy' seems to have made the acquaintance of the local deputies a time or two before, I have no doubt the Sheriff knows him or at least knows of him. It would be a poor Sheriff that didn't.


    The police chief said no one can demand a person to show their gun permit. Under the new law, he as police chief and his officers cannot demand to see a firearms permit, Childress said. “This is an example of my concern with the new gun law that people will take the law into their own hands which we will not tolerate.”
    Hardly strong words condemning recently passed legislation, but whatevs...

    The law actually says "(b) A person carrying a weapon shall not be subject to detention for the sole purpose of investigating whether such person has a weapons carry license." Were I the Sheriff, I might have "concerns" as well about private citizens attempting to exert some non-existent authority that isn't even granted to law enforcement.

    Lastly, were I being conspiratorial, I'd likely not choose someone with such a tenuous grip on reality as Mr Williams. That takes a special kind of stupid.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-08-2014 at 08:11 AM.

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