Target Addresses Firearms

Logan 5 said:

Really? Explain.
This is more along my thinking....
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I never could do the PhotoShop thing, so I'm stuck with MS Paint.

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Logan 5 said:

First off, if you had looked at the origin of the card you would see it is not mine.

I really don't care either way, really. If they have a sign saying "no guns", then respect their wishes. If you dispute it and have had no previous problems, then I guess if you want to still patronize then while OC'kng or CC'ing, then don't let me stop you.

I don't care!

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Never said you designed the card, but you did present it here with the comment "This is more along my thinking..." just above the picture.

Your post, your provided picture, your comment - therefore your card is a very simple reference.

Apparently you really don't care - more is the shame.

Some months back I posted a link to the Brady bunch's stats on crimes committed by CC permit holders, they did not have one instance of a open carrier committing a crime in those stats.

Grapeshot said:

Never said you designed the card, but you did present it here with the comment "This is more along my thinking..." just above the picture.

Your post, your provided picture, your comment - therefore your card is a very simple reference.

Apparently you really don't care - more is the shame.

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Actually Grape, it's dealing with arrogant people that think they know all and are supposedly one step below Jesus that creates the attitude of "I don't care". Not just in me, but others as well.

If Target says "no firearms", then respect it. Just like you would a church. Neither of the two are public property, and entering with a firearm even if CC and even if with a CC permit, with the knowledge that firearms are not welcome, IS a criminal act.

Like with my business (when it starts). If I say "no firearms", it's "no firearms", period. No debate. And as I have told the chief of police, county sheriff and district attorney, anyone enters my business with a firearm will be leaving in a body bag (not including law enforcement). Because the sign is clear and apparent, ignoring the sign is willful contempt/misconduct, and entering private property under adverse conditions against my will IS grounds for the use of deadly force.

With that said, if a business says "no firearms" what the hell is so hard about honoring that? Are you so insecure that you must have your AK47 with you every step of the way? Careful now, that pink leotard in the little girls section at Target is gonna come flying off the hanger and attack you viciously! Grab your AK47 and save the world! LOL! And be very careful at Chipolte, that burger and fries looks like it might grow wings and fangs...and it's coming for you! GROWWWWLLLLLL! LOL!

Seriously. If you OC or CC and handgun and don't make an issue out of it, I doubt they care. If you go into a Starbucks or Chipolte with an AR-15 or AK-47, you need some serious help.

If you have a CC permit, show the responsibility people that have those are expected to have. If you don't like it,. then boycott them. That is your right. But ignoring or disregarding the wishes on a business is not very responsible or respectful nor the conduct having a CC permit holder is expected to exhibit. If you cannot OC or CC responsibly, do you have that right, really?

Logan 5 said:

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Actually Target does not say "No firearms."

They are playing verbal gymnastics with their request. Amounts to trying to stay out of the middle w/o making it an issue. They know it and we know it.

Yes, I do OC in Target and do not feel the least bit bad about it. Have never had a negative situation while doing so and have received positive, thumbs up responses from some.

Those few, and I do mean FEW, places in my travels that are anti, posted signs, etc. do not get my business. Period. Exclamation point!

Grapeshot said:

Actually Target does not say "No firearms."

They are playing verbal gymnastics with their request. Amounts to trying to stay out of the middle w/o making it an issue. They know it and we know it.

Yes, I do OC in Target and do not feel the least bit bad about it. Have never had a negative situation will doing so and have received positive, thumbs up responses from some.

Those few, and I do mean FEW, places in my travels that are anti, posted signs, etc. do not get my business. Period. Exclamation point!

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+1

I OC in Target fairly often and have never had an issue or any kind of negativity.

Grapeshot said:

Actually Target does not say "No firearms."

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Then what the hell's the problem? :banghead:

Grapeshot said:

Yes, I do OC in Target and do not feel the least bit bad about it. Have never had a negative situation will doing so and have received positive, thumbs up responses from some.

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Oh. THAT is the problem. Thank you for clarifying that. :dude:

Logan 5 said:

Then what the hell's the problem? :banghead:

Oh. THAT is the problem. Thank you for clarifying that. :dude:

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The problem is your verbal fencing, strawman arguments, misdirection, and the like. You insult.

"Are you so insecure, Grab your AK47 and save the world, not very responsible" are things you have directed at me personally.

It grows old and is of no benefit.

I have little doubt but that you are a proponent of RKBA; however trollish behavior is not likely to be well received and extended public discussion on whether one likes moderation is detrimental to the forum. I find no humor in your chiding and encourage you to cease.

The card I posted is not about whether we can/cannot or should/should not Open Carry or CC. It is simply a means of communicating with a merchant - in this case Target Stores mentioned in the OP. I do not need to carry that card to Open or CC but with the present laws in force have to follow the laws or become a criminal. If not then I would be providing Law Enforcement justification to keep me from having a gun. Sometimes it seems this is what they want to do. You are NOT a criminal, but if they can make you one - then they can take your guns rightfully.

My comment was in response to the OP to share my experiences of what people may hear or read into Target's comment. But as usual the thread wanders off topic and people start attacking one another with unrelated remarks about other topics.

I don't think anyone here disagrees we all should be able to Open Carry or CC at will without a permit. Until some laws change that is what we are stuck with.


I agree with some of Marshaul's post #81 (whether he wants me to naff off or not ), but not all. A permit or license does provide some information about a person as does a Drivers License. It is a high-level first pass to distinguish between those who for some reason are "known" to have some characteristic to prohibited them from owning a gun. It really only applies at the moment the permit is issued.

Grapeshot - Actually Target does not say "No firearms." They are playing verbal gymnastics with their request. Amounts to trying to stay out of the middle w/o making it an issue. They know it and we know it.

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This is exactly what I was leading to - trying to explain the variations of what some may hear.

wittmeba said:

--snipped--

Grapeshot - Actually Target does not say "No firearms." They are playing verbal gymnastics with their request. Amounts to trying to stay out of the middle w/o making it an issue. They know it and we know it.

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This is exactly what I was leading to - trying to explain the variations of what some may hear.

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Or want to hear. The more they spin, the dizzier they get.

Riding the fence allows them to avoid completely prohibiting of guns whether we like it or not - open or cc. At least we won't be criminals if we do carry and enter their store.

Grapeshot said:

The problem is your verbal fencing, strawman arguments, misdirection, and the like. You insult.

"Are you so insecure, Grab your AK47 and save the world, not very responsible" are things you have directed at me personally.

It grows old and is of no benefit.

I have little doubt but that you are a proponent of RKBA; however trollish behavior is not likely to be well received and extended public discussion on whether one likes moderation is detrimental to the forum. I find no humor in your chiding and encourage you to cease.

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I was trying to add some humor by teasing you. I see I was in error. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Logan5,

Just be sure to use emoticons when you're kidding/joking or being sarcastic...when we only have text to go on, it's often the only way to tell what one's intentions are. Without emoticons, people often miss your real intent and take what is said @ face value, and seriously if they can't tell you're joking.

I use emoticons often...if people don't get my drift THEN, it's not my fault. For example, this is me being sad (at people not getting it):

:-(

Well, not really -- I don't care THAT much.

But really (for real), don't you have more serious issues to deal with? Such as all those Zombies chasing you...and avoiding having friends who will trip YOU first instead? ;-) [me joking]

Good luck...

Logan 5 said:

I was trying to add some humor by teasing you. I see I was in error. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

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What have you done with the real Logan 5? (snarkasim)

I am however encouraged and accept your message.

Simple Target Solution

Open Carry at Target and if you get hassled, leave and don't spend another cent at their stores until they stop abridging our right to keep and bear arms.

SovereigntyOrDeath said:

Open Carry at Target and if you get hassled, leave and don't spend another cent at their stores until they stop abridging our right to keep and bear arms.

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They are not abridging our RKBA. They are private property = their house, their rules.

Grapeshot said:

They are not abridging our RKBA. They are private property = their house, their rules.

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I appreciate your point of view and I respectfully disagree. I will do as I suggested at my friendly neighborhood Target in CDA.

It will probably take someone being denied to carry their firearm into an establishment and getting killed as a result of not being able to defend themselves in a robbery etc. Sue the establishment for millions of dollars, etc....etc.....etc.....

We have terrorists threatening Americans going into movie theaters to see a movie they don't like. The solution, open carry at your next theater visit.

What is next? Kill everyone at target because they are selling something offensive to these lunatics?

Yeah but, like, private property rights and stuff, dude.

The Truth said:

Yeah but, like, private property rights and stuff, dude.

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Truth that.

However, are they going to be responsible for the safety of my children and my wife?

I will not do business with anyone who will not allow me to do so. Private property or not.

I am blessed to live in an area that I can open carry and conduct my business.

If I can go to the county recorder and building department, seen by sheriff deputies open carrying, and conduct my business in peace today without being hassled, then I should anywhere.

SovereigntyOrDeath said:

I appreciate your point of view and I respectfully disagree. I will do as I suggested at my friendly neighborhood Target in CDA.

It will probably take someone being denied to carry their firearm into an establishment and getting killed as a result of not being able to defend themselves in a robbery etc. Sue the establishment for millions of dollars, etc....etc.....etc.....

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It is not my POV. The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment is a restriction on the government, not property owner's personal property.

Filing suit is easy.....if you have enough money. Winning is another matter.

SCOTUS has said that LEO's have no obligation to defend you, so I do not see how a private property owners would be negligent if they did not.

Grapeshot said:

It is not my POV. The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment is a restriction on the government, not property owner's personal property.

Filing suit is easy.....if you have enough money. Winning is another matter.

SCOTUS has said that LEO's have no obligation to defend you, so I do not see how a private property owners would be negligent if they did not.

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I understand private property rights. I chose not to support private property owners, and their places of business, that do not allow me to protect my family.

Your response proves my point. LEO's can't help, property owner can't help. My security and that of my family is my responsibility. I will not need to sue since I will not put myself or my family in that situation.


You missed my point. Someone will need to die for change to happen, more than likely.

The property owner would be negligent if they prevent someone from defending themselves and they get killed or injured. In my opinion.

Why do you think Sony is pulling their latest movie? The lawyers told them if they release and there is a massacre, the law suits would be coming for them and the private property owners and their theaters.

Why? because they can't provide for the safety of the movie goer.