Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Open carrying a non-functional replica

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88

    Question Open carrying a non-functional replica

    This is not something I'm planning to do. But I'm just interested as an intellectual exercise.
    Maybe it's a potential form of protest for open carry.

    • I take a non-functional replica of a gun (doesn't even fire blanks, barrel is sealed).
    • I put it in a holster and walk around publicly with it carried openly.

    What law(s) am I breaking, and why?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLovell View Post
    This is not something I'm planning to do. But I'm just interested as an intellectual exercise.
    Maybe it's a potential form of protest for open carry.

    • I take a non-functional replica of a gun (doesn't even fire blanks, barrel is sealed).
    • I put it in a holster and walk around publicly with it carried openly.

    What law(s) am I breaking, and why?
    I don't know about any laws, but carrying a nonfunctional firearm is one of the most stupid maneuvers any Darwin Award candidate could possibly cook up.

    This isn't the first time I've encountered this moronic idea. It has been discussed ever since fake guns were invented. Other than toys for children, the purpose of a fake gun has never been explained to me to any degree of satisfaction. (Other than to purposefully get one's self killed.)

    I assume that a fake gun would be used as a "bluff". (?)

    If so, what does a person do in the event this "bluff" gets called?

    Pull their fake gun and yell "BANG!" as loudly as possible in the hope that sheer volume can stop the bullets coming from the real gun used to call the bluff?

    Because that fake gun sure won't stop them.

    The purpose of a weapon is to provide the means with which to protect one's self. It provides an ability.

    The purpose of a fake weapon is to provide the appearance of protection. It provides an illusion.

    Only an idiot would purposefully trade a bona-fide abilty for illusory appearance.

    Especially concerning matters regarding potentially lethal consequences.

    Toys are best left to children. If a person wishes to defend his self, he should do so. If a person wishes to bluff, he should stick to card games. That way, when the bluff gets called, all a person loses is their money.
    Last edited by Superlite27; 07-03-2014 at 11:11 PM.

  3. #3
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLovell View Post
    This is not something I'm planning to do. But I'm just interested as an intellectual exercise.
    Maybe it's a potential form of protest for open carry.

    • I take a non-functional replica of a gun (doesn't even fire blanks, barrel is sealed).
    • I put it in a holster and walk around publicly with it carried openly.

    What law(s) am I breaking, and why?
    I don't know about Illinois, but other states have very burdensome laws against PHONY guns, even worse than those they have for ACTUAL firearms! I could surprise one!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Only an idiot would purposefully trade a bona-fide abilty for illusory appearance.
    I never said anything about trading. You can continue to carry a real weapon at the same time.


    But that didn't answer my question (regarding law)...

    ... And was rather rude and abusive - Which isn't helpful.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I don't know about Illinois, but other states have very burdensome laws against PHONY guns, even worse than those they have for ACTUAL firearms! I could surprise one!
    Go on, please do

    I've never considered doing such a thing, I mean who would? I just wondered what would happen.

    A "what if"

  6. #6
    Regular Member Chief Ten Beers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    129
    Well, as far as a "what if" goes, Superlite27 pretty much hit the mark with it.
    If you're not ashamed to own it, don't be ashamed to open carry it.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Concealed carry, where you HIDE the exercise of your right to carry arms.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Ten Beers View Post
    Well, as far as a "what if" goes, Superlite27 pretty much hit the mark with it.
    It contained no useful information to be honest. I'm asking legally speaking.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,606
    Many states (most?) have laws allowing for self-defense against the perception that one is facing emanate serious bodily harm or death from what turns out to be a non-functioning or fake gun - google is your friend.

    Also this -
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/5001
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,273
    Some years back a activist in Illinois carried a empty holster on a campus and was arrested. I can't see a fake gun in a holster going over any better.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Some years back a activist in Illinois carried a empty holster on a campus and was arrested. I can't see a fake gun in a holster going over any better.
    Really? Can you remember what law he broke?

    I do actually walk around with an empty holster sometimes. I live right on the Wisconsin border so I open carry there, then I came down to Gurnee to do some shopping.

    The gun (P226) is way too big to conceal in summer attire, so I had to leave it in the car. But I had my SERPA paddle holster (empty) on and visible.


    That's another concern then, as I sometimes walk around with loaded magazines visible. I wonder what generic "catch all" charge they're using.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLovell View Post
    Really? Can you remember what law he broke?

    I do actually walk around with an empty holster sometimes. I live right on the Wisconsin border so I open carry there, then I came down to Gurnee to do some shopping.

    The gun (P226) is way too big to conceal in summer attire, so I had to leave it in the car. But I had my SERPA paddle holster (empty) on and visible.


    That's another concern then, as I sometimes walk around with loaded magazines visible. I wonder what generic "catch all" charge they're using.
    I believe he was charged with DC. Shaun Kranish was arrested several times for several different charges and events. The one for DC? I believe was early in his activism.

    A few weeks ago we wrote to you about Shaun Kranish and his efforts to start another gun rights organization in Illinois, ICARRY.ORG. We welcome youth and vigor to the movement. Well now Shaun has his first taste of the war as he has been arrested at Rock Valley College in Rockford, Illinois for carrying an empty fanny pack. Shaun tells his story below, but essentially Shaun disagrees with the College's policy on self-defense. Therefore, Shaun wanted to speak to the President of the school, but was referred to the campus public safety office (aka d'uh cops.)

    http://gunowners.org/op0545.htm
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-04-2014 at 01:29 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Many states (most?) have laws allowing for self-defense against the perception that one is facing emanate serious bodily harm or death from what turns out to be a non-functioning or fake gun - google is your friend.

    Also this -
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/5001
    Surely anything holstered wouldn't demonstrate serious bodily threat?

    The natural assumption, from what I hear from OC'ers who have been approached, is of an undercover cop.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLovell View Post
    Really? Can you remember what law he broke?

    I do actually walk around with an empty holster sometimes. I live right on the Wisconsin border so I open carry there, then I came down to Gurnee to do some shopping.

    The gun (P226) is way too big to conceal in summer attire, so I had to leave it in the car. But I had my SERPA paddle holster (empty) on and visible.


    That's another concern then, as I sometimes walk around with loaded magazines visible. I wonder what generic "catch all" charge they're using.
    Many state and federal laws define ANY portion of a firearm as being a firearm. So if carrying a firearm is illegal then chances are carrying those magazines or the ammunition in them is illegal. I would suggest checking the laws of the state you are visiting in detail before removing your disarm but retaining your magazines.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88
    Disorder conduct:

    (720 ILCS 5/26-1) Illinois Compiled Statutes
    (a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he or she knowingly:
    (1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to

    alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace;
    It is unreasonable to carry additional (visible) ammunition for a concealed firearm?

    (430 ILCS 65/) Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.
    "Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however: [...]
    It doesn't appear to cover a magazine, or bullets. The prohibition is specifically regarding guns.

    (720 ILCS 5/24-1) Illinois Compiled Statutes
    (4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed

    on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions: [...]

    It's that damn disorderly conduct that's the kicker. Nothing else seems to prohibit a loaded magazine or an empty holster.
    Last edited by MikeLovell; 07-04-2014 at 02:22 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member RU serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLovell View Post
    But that didn't answer my question (regarding law)...

    ... And was rather rude and abusive - Which isn't helpful.
    So far the most common responses to my posts have been essentially combative, which is why I don't come around here much.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I believe he was charged with DC. Shaun Kranish was arrested several times for several different charges and events. The one for DC? I believe was early in his activism.

    A few weeks ago we wrote to you about Shaun Kranish and his efforts to start another gun rights organization in Illinois, ICARRY.ORG. We welcome youth and vigor to the movement. Well now Shaun has his first taste of the war as he has been arrested at Rock Valley College in Rockford, Illinois for carrying an empty fanny pack. Shaun tells his story below, but essentially Shaun disagrees with the College's policy on self-defense. Therefore, Shaun wanted to speak to the President of the school, but was referred to the campus public safety office (aka d'uh cops.)

    http://gunowners.org/op0545.htm
    Looks like this. And after this a few years later "unlawful use of a weapon" for using a modified holster that was contained and carrying an unloaded gun in it.

    Charges were dropped on both, looks like he got a civil settlement out of them too.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern Illinois, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    364
    Quote Originally Posted by arentol View Post
    Many state and federal laws define ANY portion of a firearm as being a firearm. So if carrying a firearm is illegal then chances are carrying those magazines or the ammunition in them is illegal. I would suggest checking the laws of the state you are visiting in detail before removing your disarm but retaining your magazines.
    You can transport a unloaded gun along with a loaded magazine in the same case and be within the law, in Illinois. When transporting in a fanny pack or similar case it was called "container transport" also referred to as "6 seconds to safety" I did it for about 8 years until getting my carry license this year.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •