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Thread: The Lexington Center

  1. #1
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    The Lexington Center

    Well I parked in the parking lot that has the ky farm bureau insurance booths, behind or in front of rupp arena, not sure which sode is front or back lol, and im waiting for my brother and hos wife to show up to do the fireworks with me.

    Anyway, while waiting on them, i decided to walk around abit. Walked down to the bazaar next to the 5/3 tower, then listened to the music at the park with the fountains for about half an hour.

    I had gotten hungry, So I figured I'd dash in to the food court at the Lexington Center, next to the main road and get a bite to eat.

    I went for the subway part and was gonna get a sub, when a chubby dark haired man in tan slacks and a whote long sleeve grabbed me by my arm, and told me in a forceful manner to "leave or we'll call the police". Before I realized what was going on, i was moved out the door, and told that I'd be arrested for trespassing if I went near the lexington center again.

    He didnt leave a bruise on me but i have a red mark on my arm from when he squeezed it too hard.

    I was under the impression that the Lex Center was owned by lexington or fayette county and i hadnt seen any gun buster signs.

    I got some food at the bbq stand in the fountain park and am setting in my jeep now typing this more as a script for later than as a warning to others

    I hope the reat of you are having a good 4th, im gonna try to enjoy whats left of the day.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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    Dang, sorry to hear your day went downhill like that.

    Hopefully you'll find a way to make the best of a lousy situation.

    Happy 4th.

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    Don't know why the OP posted this ... I'll wait for the movie.

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    School zone, eh? That sounds like some genuine straw grasping on the goobermint's part.

    As gutshot said there are frickin' GUN SHOWS held right there several time a year. Depending on where they parked, some patrons enter and exit through the mall/hotel lobby, handguns holstered and/or long guns on slings or in hand. Or at least I saw that as recently as two or three years ago.

  5. #5
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    I had sent an Email to three different people who are supposedly involved with TLC's management and security, demanding the person's name, and contact info, giving the three people as detailed of a description as I could recall. And I intend on getting to the bottom of who, and what, gave that person the authority to man-handle me, and talk to me in such a way.

    As to the movie? what movie? My phone was charging up in my car, along with my T3i's batteries, and I honestly wasn't expecting anything wrong, or any encounters to happen, to warrant bringing my phone, or to turn on my audio recorder. Call it stupidity, or complacency, but I've OC'd in front of, and around, Lexington police enough to know that they generally don't care, and just ignore me. When I was walking around the streets, over and under the bridge near Rupp, in front of seven Lex-PD cop cars, each with two cops within, and a couple cops sitting on some chairs next to a golf cart who waved at me, none of them cared or showed any interest in me.

    No, the person didn't have any identifying tags, patches, or name-plates whatsoever, and didn't specifically say that they represented anyone, or anything in particular. I was so caught off-guard, and shocked by it, that I didn't even think to call the police, or attempt to fight back, or to even take his actions as a threat to my life, or person in a way that may have warranted unbuckling of my holster's buckel, and such. And was fearful of him using, or saying something to police that would cause me to get killed, or shot, by police if I stuck around, and he had called them.

    But I did enjoy my 4th. I got to use my brother's wife as the designated driver, and found out some of the main-street pubs are gun-friendly and don't care about their customers drinking and carrying. [Unloaded, mag in my pocket, nothing in the pipe.]
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  6. #6
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    A few weeks ago, there was a mentioning of a blogger who encouraged people to call the police on OC'ers, and claim they was waving their weapon around, acting violent, shooting, or making demands. I have no problem Oc'ing around cops in general, and do it often and with ease. But that person struck a nerve with me, apart of TLC or a private person, it's haunting me that they would have done just what the blogger encouraged. LexPD knows the law and ignores me when I OC, but what if someone called them and told them I was waving my gun around, and threatening people, or lieing in other false ways. Then the cops would respond Code3, media would come in, and you never know if a anti-gun cop might be at base and responding out, and mistakes my hands going up, for reaching for my pistol, and three minutes later I'm dead in a pool of my own blood.

    It's not so much the local/city police that I'm concerned about, it's the people who makes the calls INTO the police.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  7. #7
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    False Calls

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    A few weeks ago, there was a mentioning of a blogger who encouraged people to call the police on OC'ers, and claim they was waving their weapon around, acting violent, shooting, or making demands. I have no problem Oc'ing around cops in general, and do it often and with ease. But that person struck a nerve with me, apart of TLC or a private person, it's haunting me that they would have done just what the blogger encouraged. LexPD knows the law and ignores me when I OC, but what if someone called them and told them I was waving my gun around, and threatening people, or lieing in other false ways. Then the cops would respond Code3, media would come in, and you never know if a anti-gun cop might be at base and responding out, and mistakes my hands going up, for reaching for my pistol, and three minutes later I'm dead in a pool of my own blood.

    It's not so much the local/city police that I'm concerned about, it's the people who makes the calls INTO the police.

    Drake, I know you have heard of reasonable suspicion and probable cause. In Kentucky this is especially needed to stop and question you. In Kentucky an officer has to see the illegal action occur or have one of the above to stop you. The nine Supreme's have said that a non identified person calling and and lodging a complaint is not sufficient cause to stop any person. With all that, you know that you can be stopped anytime, you just have to be willing to say "No, I do not wish to speak with you, am I free to go". If you are leave, if you are not, ask for a lawyer and say "I have nothing to say, I wish to remain silent and I want a lawyer". Of course, your other solution is don't carry.
    Speed is fine
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    I was discussing this with a coworker as we work near TLC an have seen the "school zone" signs. We were debating if having a CCW permit qualifies you as exempt. His argument it would only qualify of you were conceal carrying and not open carrying I believe it should cover both but have not been able to find anything to support my argument. Anyone have any info to share?

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    Great job!

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    ...Today was uneventful and really a waste of my time...
    I disagree wholeheartedly, and salute you for your efforts.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I plan on going back to Lexington Center tomorrow, Saturday, July 12. If anyone else wants to meet up with me, I'll be in the food court between 11:00 and 11:30 am. I plan on spending more time than that there, just will be in that location at that time. I'll be the old guy with the OC 1911. I hope some others from this board can make it, too.
    Is there something going on there tomorrow, or are you just checking it out again?

  12. #12
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
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    I have a connection at Lexington center. I'm not going to say who it is. I was told that all LCC security are required to wear there white shirt and uniform pants. They are clearly recognizable as security. They are also required to wear company ID on a lanyard around their neck. The head of security for LCC is a retired Kentucky State Police officer. Who I'm sure knows the law. I'm not making any assumptions about the incident described in this post. It still could have been LCC security but I would seriously doubt it. Sounds like the guy was just some sort of idiot. Just thought I would pass on what I know.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    SNIP...BB62 and I spent about an hour there today. We walked all around inside the building and got no reaction from anybody. The only security guards that I've seen are dressed just as mellio described and are very old men, older than me, even. BB62 and I talked to the one on duty today and described Drake's incident as best we could. He had heard nothing about it and could not guess who the attacker might be. We talked to several people that worked at the restaurants there with the same result. A custodian said it might have been a probation and parole officer. There office is just across the street, they dress like that and come in often, but he was just guessing. Everybody I've encountered at Lexington Center seemed very mellow. I really did not expect that to be true. From all the problems we have had with the signs and everything else, I just imagined them all to be very uptight and very anti-gun. Not so.
    Gutshot, I've seen and admire your tenacity, and I've read enough about BB62's efforts to know he is devoted in action, not merely in words.
    I applaud both your efforts.
    Now, if only we had a handful of guys as committed as you in every city...
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 07-13-2014 at 10:56 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I think you are right. BB62 and I spent about an hour there today...
    It was a real pleasure to meet gutshot today and get schooled in the nuances of KY law - a number of parts of which I'm jealous, by the way. It's a shame the OP wasn't there. :-(

    You guys have yourselves a real gem with gutshot. He's a one man RKBA organization in a state that could support a lot more.

    If you all will just change the law regarding open carry on college campuses, he and I will get a few OC Education Walks going!

    Gutshot, if you're ever north of the Ohio, give me a call and we'll OC some place "interesting". ;-)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    File a criminal complaint, you were, ambushed and assaulted. Have the cops investigate the crime committed against you.

    Your restraint is commendable.

    I don't know how I would have reacted to being grabbed in the manner you were. Though, I would have likely, and instinctively, used physical force to repel the criminal. It is a character flaw that I work diligently to manage.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Gutshot, in your description of BB62 you failed to mention that he is....well let's just say he's about 5'20" tall and with or without firearms, hard to overlook. I am mentioning this partly as humorous jab at my friend and fellow Ohioan. But also musing that the person who Drake had the negative interaction with may well have been there, and making a point of not being confrontational during your visit. Or even visible.

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    Yellow Striped Shirt

    Gutshot...

    Was he wearing his Yellow Striped shirt...???

    That's his favorite OC shirt.

    Am I not correct on that point Brian??

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lthrnck View Post
    Gutshot...

    Was he wearing his Yellow Striped shirt...???

    That's his favorite OC shirt...
    Shhh...

    Between you and Brian, I'll never be able to blend into a crowd!

    No, I was wearing another similarly equipped shirt.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    ...But also musing that the person who Drake had the negative interaction with may well have been there, and making a point of not being confrontational during your visit. Or even visible.
    I don't know if your question has been answered by gutshot and others, but just in case it wasn't, let me clarify a few things: The place was D E A D. Very, very few people were there, even though the place has shops as well as a food court.

    The unarmed "security guard" was wearing gray pants with a stripe up the side of each leg. He said that was their uniform. The only people I saw wearing khaki pants were a car salesman and an employee of the hotel (Sheraton?) onsite. The only only people that the custodian/mall worker said wore khaki were the probation officers who worked, I believe, in another part of the building.

    Whatever happened happened, and I think more trips would be unfruitful, even with the presence of the OP. IMHO if you're going to open carry you have to use such encounters as learning experiences and decide how you would handle such a thing in the future. I don't mean it as a put down, but from reading the OP's posts it appears he is not yet a seasoned OCer, but hey, we all had to start somewhere.

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    I figured it was dead there, given there was no college basketball or convention/trade show/etc. going on at the time. Like I said it's been two or three years since my last visit but for maybe a decade or so I went to gun shows there quite often. It was no problem passing through the food court or hotel lobby with carried/holstered firearms. Heck the hall was smoke friendly less than ten years back (?) and I'd walk the show while enjoying a fine cigar. In those days about half the food court was posted 'no smoking' and that was it.

    Drake, are you going to follow up on this? And how will you handle it differently if the same sort of confrontation occurs again in similar circumstances?

  21. #21
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Hello everyone! I'm terribly sorry that I haven't made my presence felt since the last time I posted, and that I haven't followed up to this thread. I've been in Canada since mid-July, as part of a vacation, and for a very temp job near the 'tar sands' that I had been offered back in March, got back on Monday, and been dealing with the fallout of my Fiance walking out on me, and not telling me that he sold 90% of the stuff I had left in what was our shared apartment.

    In regards to the thread, I had filed a complain with Lexington Police prior to my departure to Canada, but told them that I would be out of contact for international employment and vacational reasons, and I haven't gotten any calls, or emails from the assigned investigational contact that was given to my case, but I had learned from LCC, and LPD that the person who assaulted me was NOT in any way, shape, or form, related to any official public, or private business on, or in LCC. BUT! LPD did mention that a person matching the description I gave, had assaulted a couple people in Jacobson Park a month prior to my own incident, claiming to have been employed by the park as 'contracted security'.

    I'm not really concerned with pursuing the matter with LCC, or anyone like that. Just gotta live, and learn.

    I will say this for sure. Having spent a month and a half in Canada for fun, and business, I have missed my home state, and I have missed the freedoms, and rights that even us Open Carriers take for granted. For instance, getting a 600$CAN ticket by a Mounty, for calling a white hood-rat "Wi[geegee]er" was a shocking crash-course in the large, and small, differences between two countries who on the exterior, seem so much alike, yet deep down, are so far apart it's like two different worlds. No free speech, no right or even permission-slips for defense, a hefty felony for anyone who carries even pocket knives without a permission slip. Cars have to have both english AND french wording on them, U.S. cars that have spedometers with ONLY MPH/Imperial measurements on them are strictly illegal in Canada, AND, Smoking, and even vaping, are strictly controlled.

    Even if I'm an Atheist, I have to say 'Gods bless the USA'.

    I may adore Canada for their unrivaled heavenly treatment for LGBT people, but, I would rather live in an American Theocracy, where I can own whatever firearms my wallet can buy, than to live in a socialist state with gay marriage and protections for all, but not be able to even own a pocket knife without a permit. And that's saying something from me.

    Screw spelling, I'm too worn out to be a grammar nazi.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  22. #22
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Welcome back, Drake! I've been into LCC twice since your incident. Both times I was OC. BB62 was with me, once. We asked everybody we could find about your incident and described the man involved and nobody knew anything about it and could not suggest who it might be. I had come to the conclusion that who ever it was, he was not associated with LCC. It sounds like your information agrees with that. I hope your situation improves soon.
    Don't get mouthy with anybody in Ky., you could get more than a fine.
    I'm reading through your posts in another broswer tab, and it looks like you guys have did a thorough job making sure LCC knows their bounds, even if they knew their bounds already, better to make sure.

    Besides, I don't get mouthy with my bluegrass brothers, unless they deserve it, of course, or unless they want it, hehe. Glad your situation with lextran, and other bus-ways worked out in your favor, though.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Sir Diealotz's Avatar
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    Welcome back Drake.

    I have a few friends in Canada and I agree; I couldn't live there.
    Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.

    Thomas Paine

  24. #24
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
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    Hey Gutshot, just a little info on the Lady LEX Expo. If someone is listed as a sponsor it means they have bought advertising space or several booths for the event. If an event is actually put together by the Lexington Center Corporation it will usually say something like "presented by Lexington Center Corporation". I don't think there is any more involvement in the lady LEX expo than an advertising sponsorship. I think ale8one is also a sponsor for this event. It doesn't mean either one of them have a real say in the rules of who may attend or what they can carry while attending. Carry on.

  25. #25
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
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    You may have more info than I do but do not believe it to be true that lexington center is the actual lease holder of the room that the ladies expo is going to take place in.
    http://www.ladylexexpo.com/sponsors.html
    Last edited by mellio; 09-06-2014 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Added link.

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