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Thread: Conceal Carry Q?

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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Conceal Carry Q?

    If it's concealed who's to know? Why the permit?

    I was concealed a few month ago at an outdoor community park public function, walked by the Sheriff and nodded at him. His folks use to have a home next to me, but we've never actually been introduced. He didn't register any awareness towards my carry.

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    OC is still mostly prohibited - illegal - in SC, so it is much easier to argue inadvertence if you momentarily expose. " "Concealable weapon" means a firearm ... carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing."

    OC is traditional in Wisconsin, but Wisconsin is also home to a large fraction of progressive gun-grabbers, so a CWL allows me to pull my jacket over my EDC just to avoid hassle.

    Where "the permit" is required, remember that only the law abiding abide the law.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-06-2014 at 06:46 PM.
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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    To me conceal carry is a PITA. When open carry, the only time I might be in violation is if my shirt comes out a bit and partially conceals my firearm. Good Lord!!! When the weather is cool and I wear a vest that hangs down beyond my waist, partially concealing the pistol, again now I'm a criminal. WTF!!!

    I'm thinking just carry and not be concerned about OC or CC. If I'm a threat, then I guess there will be something done about it.

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    I was communion assistant today, The Fourth Sunday After Pentecost, while wearing jacket and tie, and earlier a fedora.

    Lightning didn't come down and, more importantly, none of my blue-haired congregants ran screaming from the sanctuary. I have served as lector, usher, and assistant many times while armed. I have attended Church about 140 Sundays since concealing became legal in Wisconsin. Previously a blue-haired churchlady retired school-teacher said, "I don't want you with a gun around me!"

    I dress out of respect for my congregants. I carry out of respect for my promise to lay down my life for my friends (John 15:13).

    About the PITA, I have decided, from quite a different perspective, that the honor lies in the personal inconvenience, from the perspective of flag etiquette. There is no honor in hanging a rag in the sky to die forgotten and a victim of the elements.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-06-2014 at 07:28 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    If it's concealed who's to know? Why the permit?

    ,,,.
    The Captain Obvious answer: The permit is to make sure that The State is able to control you.

    Law-abiding folks generally see the loss of freedom as a very negative experience, while criminals see loss of freedom as but one of the costs of doing business. And since criminals are 1) not risk-aversive and 2) are more often not caught, the cost of doing business is low and thus not worth much concern.

    I can neither confirm nor deny that there has ever been one or more occassions when I did not obey one or more laws - in the spirit if not in the letter. However, I would venture to speculate that if such an event had occurred I most likely would have had some level of apprehension about not obeying the law.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member arizonaopa's Avatar
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    View from the southwest

    I often extol the benefits of living in AZ. We are a constitutional carry state that does not require a permit to carry open or concealed. I carry open almost all of the time since it is what I am comfortable with. However, I do have a concealed permit to allow me to carry in other states that do not allow open carry. I truly wish that all 50 of the states were constitutional carry, but until we elect people to congress that support the constitution, this won't happen. I can only say that even though CCWs are a pain, follow the law, stay out of trouble and fight the good fight.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    To me conceal carry is a PITA. When open carry, the only time I might be in violation is if my shirt comes out a bit and partially conceals my firearm. Good Lord!!! When the weather is cool and I wear a vest that hangs down beyond my waist, partially concealing the pistol, again now I'm a criminal. WTF!!!

    I'm thinking just carry and not be concerned about OC or CC. If I'm a threat, then I guess there will be something done about it.
    One solution is to have a CC permit and live in a state that doesn't care about things like printing or going back and forth between OC and CC in public.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arizonaopa View Post
    I often extol the benefits of living in AZ. We are a constitutional carry state that does not require a permit to carry open or concealed. I carry open almost all of the time since it is what I am comfortable with. However, I do have a concealed permit to allow me to carry in other states that do not allow open carry. I truly wish that all 50 of the states were constitutional carry, but until we elect people to congress that support the constitution, this won't happen. I can only say that even though CCWs are a pain, follow the law, stay out of trouble and fight the good fight.
    I thought if you were a resident of a Constitutional carry state, that your state ID was your carry permit for both open and CC in other states. I tried to conceal carry once. It was very uncomfortable to me and made me a lot more paranoid. I was always checking to make sure my gun was covered. I felt I was actually bringing more attention to myself than if I were open carrying.
    Last edited by Arin Morris; 09-17-2014 at 11:43 AM.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin Morris View Post
    I thought if you were a resident of a Constitutional carry state, that your state ID was your carry permit for both open and CC in other states. I tried to conceal carry once. It was very uncomfortable to me and made me a lot more paranoid. I was always checking to make sure my gun was covered. I felt I was actually bringing more attention to myself than if I were open carrying.
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every state is different. The only thing they will recognize in another state is your drivers license for driving a car. Your in OK that requires a CPL for both CC, and OC. Most states won't even recognize another states CPL. Look at the lady that drove into NJ, and got pulled over for a minor traffic infraction. She is looking at three years prison. She thought her PA CPL was good everywhere too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every state is different. The only thing they will recognize in another state is your drivers license for driving a car. Your in OK that requires a CPL for both CC, and OC. Most states won't even recognize another states CPL. Look at the lady that drove into NJ, and got pulled over for a minor traffic infraction. She is looking at three years prison. She thought her PA CPL was good everywhere too.
    I understand that Oklahoma requires a handgun license for CC and OC. Not being from a constitutional carry state, I wasn't sure. I'll keep in mind that every state is different, however Oklahoma does recognize a constitutional carry state issued license as a CC permit. Below is Oklahoma's reciprocal agreement from the Self Defense Act. I'm not a lawyer so legalese always confuses me, but I think I'm reading this right presuming "nonpermitted carry state" is the same as "constitutional carry state". Please let me know if I'm wrong.

    TITLE 21 1290.26 RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY

    The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued by
    another state, or if the state is a nonpermitting carry state, this state shall reciprocate under the permitting law
    of that state.

    A. Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed or unconcealed carry upon the
    authority and license of another state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed or unconcealed firearm and
    license in this state; provided the license from the other state remains valid. The firearm must either be carried
    unconcealed or concealed from detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state,
    the person must disclose the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed or unconcealed firearm pursuant to a
    valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued in another state.

    B. Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed carry upon the authority of a
    state that is a nonpermitted carry state and the person is in compliance with the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, the
    person is authorized to carry a concealed firearm in this state. The firearm must be carried fully concealed from
    detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person must disclose the fact
    that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm pursuant to the nonpermitting laws of the state in which he or
    she is a legal resident. The person shall present proper identification by a valid photo ID as proof that he or she is a
    legal resident in such a non-permitting state. The Department of Public Safety shall keep a current list of non-permitting states for law enforcement officers to confirm that a state is nonpermitting.

    C. Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may
    apply for a handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state.
    source

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin Morris View Post
    I thought if you were a resident of a Constitutional carry state, that your state ID was your carry permit for both open and CC in other states. I tried to conceal carry once. It was very uncomfortable to me and made me a lot more paranoid. I was always checking to make sure my gun was covered. I felt I was actually bringing more attention to myself than if I were open carrying.
    What's a state ID?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I do both modes. It depends upon the circumstances and what I deem to be in my better interests at a given place and time. Most of the time, I OC. However, even in Virginia there are times when I choose to CC. Last week I was in South Carolina and carried concealed all over Charleston, and other places, comfortably since our states have a reciprocity agreement.

    Like others have said, it really is a shame that as a nation, we don't have what we once had; the freedom to carry our arms wherever and whenever we desire. As one poster mentioned, the recent case of the woman who innocently told a NJ officer that she was armed and had a Pennsylvania permit is both a sham and a shame. The harm that states inflict upon law abiding people who are merely exercising their God-given rights is a tragedy.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    What's a state ID?
    LOL It misspoke, meant statist ID, like a party membership card.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    If it's concealed who's to know? Why the permit?
    I think part of the answerr is found in historical context. There are various prohibitions against concealed carry dating back to at or near our founding. My understanding is that it was generally thought that OC was a proper and honorable was to be armed and that CC was only purposeful for sneaking or other bad intentions. Missouri's constitution (until recently amended) protected the right to bear arms but reserved to the state the right to regulate concealed carry (ironically we are still fighting for non-licensed OC state wide while licensed shall issue has been in place for about 8 years).

    Now, in our modern world with the general public's ostrich perspective, many prefer the out of sight out of mind of CC with state supervised licensure. But even with that, you will find that a common argument among CC only purveyors is that CC is more effective than OC because one can surprise the bad guy, an argument our Founders would have apparently found abborant.

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    "Why the permit"? To keep your ass outta jail if a permit is required in your state while the lawyers sort out your future because your shirt covered your gun and you didn't notice it, but a cop did.

    Sorry about the long sentence, but you don't want even a short one.

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    Regular Member warvet68/69's Avatar
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    Being African American

    I feel safer begin CC,than OC,walking down the streets in Louisville, Ky.,because of the way police profile African American males, and i'm 64 yrs old. Does anyone have that same fear here on OC?
    I love the life I live,and I live the life I love,I carry both ways!

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warvet68/69 View Post
    I feel safer begin CC,than OC,walking down the streets in Louisville, Ky.,because of the way police profile African American males, and i'm 64 yrs old. Does anyone have that same fear here on OC?
    I have that concern and am always apprehensive of hostile LEO in every urban area just carrying a sidearm. I do probably have a different perspective though because I am a mid-40s 6'+, athletic built white guy with short hair who my wife and friends say looks like a cop or military guy when I carry (I dispute that as almost every LEO we know our age is way fatter than I have ever been ) But despite that, I do still get a bit uptight sometimes when it seems LEO or security guy is looking at me too hard or long. I'm not sure if that is normal or me being a chicken but it is what it is.

    In my mind proper OC is far less suspicious than CC (proper meaning carry in a well secured holster properly fitting your fire arm including covering the trigger). A bad guy, white-black-green-yellow-whatever, is highly unlikely to carry OC and is even more unlikely to carry a decent gun in a good holster OC. BGs hide their guns so they don't get caught. Maybe I would think differently if I were a cop, but take 2 guys both dressed kinda lower class punk kid and one is slightly printing CC and the other is proud and loud OC, I'm watching the CC guy. The OC guy has nothing to hide and may be just baiting LEO with that outfit.

    For OC I prefer to have a tucked in shirt and obviously pants with a belt to secure my sidearm. While I have a CCW, I don't want to be accidentally switching back and forth CC/OC because my shirt isn't tucked in and I don't like looking sloppy. I would suggest that if you are OC dressed in generally that manner and minding your own business and are hassled by LEO that you have a good OCDO story and good reason to figure those cops cared more about your skin color than your character.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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