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Thread: Time to let VCU know

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Exclamation Time to let VCU know

    Virginia Commonwealth University’s Police Department is seeking public comment as part of an assessment for accreditation by the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. A team from the association will examine all aspects of the department’s policies and procedures, management, operations and support services as part of the voluntary process. University members, agency employees and the public may offer comments by calling (804) 828-6722 on July 21 from 1 to 3 p.m. The association’s assessment team will document comments.
    Times-Dispatch

    There are a enough people here that have stories about abuses by VCU cops to put a crimp in their accreditation.

    My first comment will be the time the VCU cop told Grapeshot and I that it was private property and I couldn't video....at the same event where VCDL and the Chief were trying to calm the public over robberies....then the many threats to arrest people walking past MCV smoking....and the heavy handed harassment of OC'ers in Monroe Park.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-08-2014 at 11:30 PM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Thuggery must be exposed at every opportunity. Submit recording and let the chips fall where they may.

    VCU Cop Shop: "Those were isolated incidents and not indicative of VCU Cop SHop. We addressed those transgressions and instituted corrective measures and policy changes to mitigate any future misunderstandings."

    VCU Cop Shop: "...what's that? Are those thugs still on the payroll? Well, yeah! We don't toss our own under the bus."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    A two-hour window to submit telephone message comments? To one phone number? (How much do you want to bet it is not going to have the capacity to record more than one phone call at a time?)

    (Or that some VCU cop will try to get his sainted grandmother to call in and prattle on for the full 2 hours?)

    That's what The International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators considers public input? You can be sure that I will be contacting them (cc: VCU Campus Police & the Secretary of Public Safety) regarding that - and it will not be favorable.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    And... thread locked for "cop bashing" (OCDO definition: anything that is not cop worshipping is "bashing") in 3... 2... 1...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanB View Post
    And... thread locked for "cop bashing" (OCDO definition: anything that is not cop worshipping is "bashing") in 3... 2... 1...
    Not so - bashing is a catagorized, broad brush approach.

    When there are known, specific problems with a department or particular LEO, airing those complaints is definitely legitimate and not bashing.

    The VCU/MCV police department has had and still does have problems. From what I can see, they are not being addressed.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-08-2014 at 11:26 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Are we so sure that such comments will not in fact assist with their accreditation? Seems it may be worthwhile to look into the nature of who's doing the accrediting.

    (A somewhat cynical) TFred

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Are we so sure that such comments will not in fact assist with their accreditation? Seems it may be worthwhile to look into the nature of who's doing the accrediting.

    (A somewhat cynical) TFred
    Their page on accredidation http://www.iaclea.org/visitors/profe...tion/index.cfm Have to look for it, but they do publish their accredidation standards at http://www.iaclea.org/visitors/profe...dardsindex.cfm which then takes you to their Standards Manual http://www.iaclea.org/visitors/PDFs/...ardsManual.pdf

    It does seem VCU Police have a lock on Standard 1.1.2

    I have some heartburn about the last clause of Standards 2.1.1 and 2/1.2 Anybody want to guess why?

    The articl;e they link to about the benefits of accredidation. http://www.nacubo.org/Business_Offic...Certified.html

    Here are the list of benefits:
    PROCESS PROMOTES POSITIVES

    Colleges and universities that have achieved accreditation of their safety and security departments find that other related benefits accrue, including:
    Easier recruitment of officers.
    Higher rate of worker retention.
    Improved department morale.
    Increased credibility.
    Enhanced operations.
    Department stability.
    Reduced liability litigation.
    Elevated reputation.
    (emphasis added)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    PROCESS PROMOTES POSITIVES

    Colleges and universities that have achieved accreditation of their safety and security departments find that other related benefits accrue, including:
    Easier recruitment of officers.
    Higher rate of worker retention.
    Improved department morale.
    Increased credibility.
    Enhanced operations.
    Department stability.
    Reduced liability litigation.
    Elevated reputation.
    Increased credibility...yeah, right.

    Elevated reputation? Elevated to what? These folks must think that all cop shops are 100% defect free.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  9. #9
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Are we so sure that such comments will not in fact assist with their accreditation? Seems it may be worthwhile to look into the nature of who's doing the accrediting.

    (A somewhat cynical) TFred
    That was damn funny TFred.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Virginia Commonwealth University’s Police Department is seeking public comment as part of an assessment for accreditation by the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. A team from the association will examine all aspects of the department’s policies and procedures, management, operations and support services as part of the voluntary process. University members, agency employees and the public may offer comments by calling (804) 828-6722 on July 21 from 1 to 3 p.m. The association’s assessment team will document comments.
    Times-Dispatch

    There are a enough people here that have stories about abuses by VCU cops to put a crimp in their accreditation.

    My first comment will be the time the VCU cop told Grapeshot and I that it was private property and I couldn't video....at the same event where VCDL and the Chief were trying to calm the public over robberies....then the many threats to arrest people walking past MCV smoking....and the heavy handed harassment of OC'ers in Monroe Park.
    I've had friends open carry long guns and hand guns down broad street in front of VCU. Nothing happened.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xifex View Post
    I've had friends open carry long guns and hand guns down broad street in front of VCU. Nothing happened.
    We have a saying here = Pictures or it didn't happen. That is not intended to question one's veracity, but rather to allow us to confirm.

    The preference would be pictures w/VCU officers in the frame.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xifex View Post
    I've had friends open carry long guns and hand guns down broad street in front of VCU. Nothing happened.
    What part of Broad Street? What time of day?

    There is darned little of VCU along Broad Street when you compare it to between Grace to Cary Streets from Belevdere to Lombardy.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    What part of Broad Street? What time of day?

    There is darned little of VCU along Broad Street when you compare it to between Grace to Cary Streets from Belevdere to Lombardy.

    stay safe.
    Additionally, VCU has no authority to restrict carry on the sidewalks along municipal streets. These sidewalks are technically off campus.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-14-2014 at 07:36 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Additionally, VCU has no authority to restrict carry on the sidewalks along municipal streets. These sidewalks are technically off campus.
    VCU Police have concurrent jurisdiction with RPD on the sidewalks, and at times have held the belief that their property line extends to the curb. I have found that to be the case moreso with the commercial properties they own than with the clearly educational facilities.

    It's not just about whether or not they have jurisdiction. It's about how they behave, including whether or not their employees know the laws and whether or not they abuse people in spite of what te law says. That old saw about beating the charge but not beating the ride always comes out right about at this juncture.

    BTW - only seven (7) more days till the two-hour phone-in comment period. Mark your calendars and set your alarm clocks!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We have a saying here = Pictures or it didn't happen. That is not intended to question one's veracity, but rather to allow us to confirm.

    The preference would be pictures w/VCU officers in the frame.
    No problem if i can get any photos they had from that stroll around town I will post them. One of them did get hassled before by a VCU officer on a seperate occasion though I'm unsure of the details.

    It is easy to make up things online but just like any report having documented evidence makes ones story allot more believable.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    MONDAY's COMING - set your calenars and alarm clocks!

    calling (804) 828-6722 on July 21 from 1 to 3 p.m.
    That's this coming Monday afternoon, in case anybody forgot to check the calendar.

    TWO WHOLE HOURS to phone in comments.

    I've put the number on speed dial so that when I get a busy signal I can jump right back in the que.

    I'm also writing/editing/practicing my comment so that I don't "umm" and "like" and "you know" my time away.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    BTT - a little less than 48 hours before the rodeo begins.

    stay safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    That's this coming Monday afternoon, in case anybody forgot to check the calendar.

    TWO WHOLE HOURS to phone in comments.

    I've put the number on speed dial so that when I get a busy signal I can jump right back in the que.

    I'm also writing/editing/practicing my comment so that I don't "umm" and "like" and "you know" my time away.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Well, that went really well - not!

    Waited till 1:01 PM just to make sure I did not jump the starting gun. Busy signal. Hit "end call" and then "redial". Busy signal. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    OK, there was that short interruption where I visited the little persons' room. [Wouldn't want to be accused of being sexist.]

    Start over. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    I started an email comment to VCU Police and the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. I've put it aside for a while till I calm down and can ensure that the entire content will be socially appropriate.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Could not get through........actually busy (1 line?) or phone simply off the hook?

    Why am I not surprised?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-21-2014 at 04:57 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Metoo. I'm going to email my concerns directly to the Accreditation board.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Metoo. I'm going to email my concerns directly to the Accreditation board.
    Which concerns?

    a) about VCU PD

    b) about the phone-in comment process and the inability to get through

    c) Duh! Both!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Which concerns?

    a) about VCU PD

    b) about the phone-in comment process and the inability to get through

    c) Duh! Both!

    stay safe.
    Both!
    If I'm going to fuss, might as well get in all my gripes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Could not get through........actually busy (1 line?) or phone simply off the hook?

    Why am I not surprised?
    Did you actually think they wanted us to comment?

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha

    OMG I think I hurt myself laughing.

    The last thing they want is the truth.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The Accreditation Standards can be found here:
    http://iaclea.org/visitors/professio...dardsindex.cfm

    My biggest complaint is the double sidestep shuffle that they do with regard to city streets and public right-of-way side walks along those streets.

    VCU PD will maintain that any crime that happens on these streets or sidewalks is "off campus" even when surrounded 360 degrees by university property. Yet they will try to enforce their rules and regulations on the general public in these same areas.

    IMO they violate the standard of reasonableness in the first instance (too much spin, not enough transparency) and are flat out wrong in the second.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-22-2014 at 09:15 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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