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Thread: Lawsuit against OSU

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Lawsuit against OSU

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80917

    I'm scratching my head. All I get out of the suit is OFCC/SCCC wants students to be allowed to open carry on campus. If that's what they are attempting to do, great. But, the truth of the matter is if OSU attempted to punish a student for open carry on campus OSU would find themselves in an untenable position of a federal 1983 suit.

    One of the major problems is the plaintiffs did not do their home work. The suit refers to the Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01. The problem is there is no Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01.

    This section 3335-23-01 is a section from the OSU Bylaws.
    Last edited by color of law; 07-09-2014 at 08:29 AM.

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    It's much more than carry on campus. Right now a student or employee of OSU can't even keep a firearm in their vehicle as it's a violation of either university employment policy or the student code of conduct. And neither of those discipline actions would result in a 1983 suit.

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    Students Sue Ohio State Over Bizarrely Broad Anti-Gun Rules

    Link.

    Excerpt: "Students for Concealed Carry and another gun-rights group have filed a civil suit in state court against Ohio State University, alleging that the school’s anti-gun policy is so breathtaking in its scope that it is illegal under state law. The gun-rights advocates say the policy bans students from carrying firearms when they aren’t even on Ohio State’s campus..."

    This is the second time I've heard of a University enacting a school rule which attempts to curb an adult student's Constitutional rights simply because they're a student, regardless of their location or activity, and backs it up with threat of expulsion.

    Quite frankly, I sincerely hope Ohio State gets the SNOT sued out of them. Just as nothing speaks louder to municipalities than a string of monetary awards paid out by neighboring cities, perhaps the sting of a loosing some green will help colleges and universities get a clue or three when it comes to how and why respecting our Constitution, particularly our Second Amendment, is by far in their better interest than trying to subvert student rights.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    '...and another gun rights group..."

    That would be Ohioans For Concealed Carry. Let's make sure to give credit where credit is due, and try to stick together in what will be a long drawn out legal tussle. And, probably expensive, OSU has DEEP pockets. SCCC and OFCC should be so lucky.

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    Bottom line to me is that anything that allows more good guys to be lawfully armed more often around a college campus, it's a good thing. Crime, even some of the violent stuff, is often unreported/under-reported in and around campus, by pretty much any university PD I've ever heard of.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Paragraph 14 from the lawsuit.
    14. The unlawful rules promulgated and enforced by Defendant OSU restrict the fundamental rights to keep and bear arms, including the common law and Constitutionally protected rights of Plaintiffs and OSU students, faculty, staff, employees, visitors and the public. The rights violated include the fundamental right of self defense of OSU students residing in University housing, who are unable to keep a firearm in their residences for their defense and security. See, e.g., District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008); McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), and Klein v. Leis, 99 Ohio St.3d 537, 2003-Ohio-4779.
    Ohio Revised Code:
    2923.126(C)(3)(b) A landlord may not prohibit or restrict a tenant who is a licensee and who on or after September 9, 2008, enters into a rental agreement with the landlord for the use of residential premises, and the tenant's guest while the tenant is present, from lawfully carrying or possessing a handgun on those residential premises.
    (c) As used in division (C)(3) of this section:
    (i) "Residential premises" has the same meaning as in section 5321.01 of the Revised Code, except "residential premises" does not include a dwelling unit that is owned or operated by a college or university.
    So, tell me how OSU can change state law?

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    All ready posted in the Ohio thread.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...y.php?119-Ohio

    unfortunately most of the lawsuit is smoke and no fire.

    About all that can be accomplished is the bylaws of the university and the student code of conduct could be changed to be in conformity with state law. In other words, allow students and employees to open carry on the campus, as this is the right of all Ohio citizens.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    All ready posted in the Ohio thread.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...y.php?119-Ohio

    unfortunately most of the lawsuit is smoke and no fire.

    About all that can be accomplished is the bylaws of the university and the student code of conduct could be changed to be in conformity with state law. In other words, allow students and employees to open carry on the campus, as this is the right of all Ohio citizens.
    And to be able to keep their handguns in their vehicles while on campus. Both of which are good things, but your comments make it sound like it isn't worthwhile.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    And to be able to keep their handguns in their vehicles while on campus. Both of which are good things, but your comments make it sound like it isn't worthwhile.
    I wish them all the luck in the world.

    The student code of conduct does not trump state law. No contract trumps state law.

    To be a trustee of OSU you have to take an oath to the U.S. Constitution, Ohio constitution and the laws of Ohio. If they affirmed the bylaws and if any of those bylaws violate federal and state constitutions and the laws then those sections of the bylaws are void ab initio.
    Last edited by color of law; 07-10-2014 at 06:25 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Published on Aug 6, 2014
    Two students spoke out for gun rights during a panel discussion at the Students for Concealed Carry conference held at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=U...&v=hu13GQC5H2s
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Students for Concealed Carry Foundation, Inc. & Ohioans for Concealed Carry & Ryan A. Guenther
    Plaintiffs
    vs.
    The Ohio State University
    Defendant.

    On 9/11/15 the plaintiff's voluntarily dismissed the case without prejudice.
    http://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/Ca...DtXqi4J0UzlSzu

    I'm scratching my head. I was told this lawsuit was a big deal and was going to change the world.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Students for Concealed Carry Foundation, Inc. & Ohioans for Concealed Carry & Ryan A. Guenther
    Plaintiffs
    vs.
    The Ohio State University
    Defendant.

    On 9/11/15 the plaintiff's voluntarily dismissed the case without prejudice.
    http://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/Ca...DtXqi4J0UzlSzu

    I'm scratching my head. I was told this lawsuit was a big deal and was going to change the world.
    Linky no worky for me.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Link goes to online case search page. Hard to search without case ID.

    stay safe.
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  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Linky no worky for me.
    I can fix that.

    CASE NO. 14CV6927
    http://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/Ca...12eariiiragca6

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80917

    I'm scratching my head. All I get out of the suit is OFCC/SCCC wants students to be allowed to open carry on campus. If that's what they are attempting to do, great. But, the truth of the matter is if OSU attempted to punish a student for open carry on campus OSU would find themselves in an untenable position of a federal 1983 suit.

    One of the major problems is the plaintiffs did not do their home work. The suit refers to the Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01. The problem is there is no Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01.

    This section 3335-23-01 is a section from the OSU Bylaws.
    You are free to contact their attny..they can amend. I have contacted several attny regarding their pleadings in a complaint or appeal..either by providing them with facts that they were not aware of or mistakes I see. Sometimes they have amended !

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You are free to contact their attny..they can amend. I have contacted several attny regarding their pleadings in a complaint or appeal..either by providing them with facts that they were not aware of or mistakes I see. Sometimes they have amended !
    I'm quite aware of what I can do. From what I'm told this case was brought by the most authoritative Ohio guns rights organization and most experienced Ohio gun rights attorney.
    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80917

    Don't get me wrong, OFCC has won some significant gun cases. But, when that happens infallibility sometimes sets in. This case is a good example of that. This case was DOA. There were associates of OFCC that criticized open carry walks on OSU's campus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ojQTROOo9Y
    Last edited by color of law; 11-07-2015 at 09:07 AM.

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    Gee, no mention of this on OFCC's forums, at least yet. Got to say I couldn't see this case ever being a winner, not without LOTS of financial backing. And probably with more, well orchestrated and publicized campus OC walks.

    Meanwhile there's the chance of a legislative fix, but right now our Governor is so busy running for POTUS he has no time for Ohio business.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Gee, no mention of this on OFCC's forums, at least yet. Got to say I couldn't see this case ever being a winner, not without LOTS of financial backing. And probably with more, well orchestrated and publicized campus OC walks.

    Meanwhile there's the chance of a legislative fix, but right now our Governor is so busy running for POTUS he has no time for Ohio business.
    It is almost 60 days after the fact. Were are all the in your face-this is the greatest lawsuit ever know-it-alls? I forgot, they said that the OSU open carry walk would destroyed any chance of a lawsuit succeeding. It is always the other guys fault.

    They can always refile the suit within a year. But, what is going to be discovered or legislation passed in the next year that's going to turn the lawsuit into a winner?

    If the Republican controlled general assembly and John Kasich passed into law major gun rights reforms, I would bet, Kasich would move up in the polls. After all, Kasich claims to be a pragmatist.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Students for Concealed Carry Foundation, Inc. & Ohioans for Concealed Carry & Ryan A. Guenther
    Plaintiffs
    vs.
    The Ohio State University
    Defendant.

    On 9/11/15 the plaintiff's voluntarily dismissed the case without prejudice.
    http://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/Ca...DtXqi4J0UzlSzu

    I'm scratching my head. I was told this lawsuit was a big deal and was going to change the world.
    Why do you ALWAYS cause trouble???

    More than a year ago (7/31/14), a person with an air of authority handled another troublemaker's question about advancing things in the legislature rather than the courtroom: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.p...80917&start=30 (last post)

    Not that it will help students at private universities, because that will takeother initiatives, but I'm wondering when the powers-that-be in Ohio's RKBA organizations are going to announce that they will fight tooth and nail for concealed carry on campuses - in the legislature...?
    Well, seeing as there are bills already submitted to do that, we just have to wait till the elected get back to allow them to vote. So you want an announcement, OFCC will fight tooth and nail to pass the current pro-gun bills pending, all 15 or so pending bills. That make you happy? There's already tons of bills on the table, not much we can do right now.

    AND, moving forward a year, a bill has been introduced in the legislature - to give universities a choice!

    Certainly, OSU will be the first to opt in!! After all, why force the dear universities when, if given the chance, they'd choose the path of enlightenment all on their own?

    Now, go back to your cave and quit causing trouble!


    (Oh, and btw, the real reason the whole lawsuit thing fell apart was because of that jerk who organized an OC walk at OSU: count on it!)

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Why do you ALWAYS cause trouble???...........
    I would have to petition the probate court to change my middle name.

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    CoL you will be pleased to know that by myself and BB62 starting threads on this topic at OFCC's forums, we got our good friend Werz to chime in with a suggestion for a new and much better way to proceed in getting campus carry legalized in Ohio. (For those unfamiliar with OFCC, the member with username 'Werz' is a prosecuting attorney who happens to be VERY pro-2nd Amendment. He has been literally in lockstep with us for several OC marches and such now, video taping the events for our protection from and LE organizations that might wish to overstep their authority.) Anyhow, what he proposes is some change to a section of ORC that deals specifically with the powers granted to public universities.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Per OFCC - SMMAssociates - I'm too old to care, really, although I could use the income, but what about the "damage" done (by the "no weapons" policies) to folks who might otherwise do some useful teaching (and maybe make a few bucks) as old-timers on these campuses, but can't/won't because of the restrictions?
    As I have pointed out before, there is another way. Ohio Revised Code - § 3345.27. Allows senior citizens to attend classes on a nontuition, noncredit, space available basis; tuition or fee for receiving credit. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3345.27
    Sign up for a course.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    CoL you will be pleased to know that by myself and BB62 starting threads on this topic at OFCC's forums, we got our good friend Werz to chime in with a suggestion for a new and much better way to proceed in getting campus carry legalized in Ohio. (For those unfamiliar with OFCC, the member with username 'Werz' is a prosecuting attorney who happens to be VERY pro-2nd Amendment. He has been literally in lockstep with us for several OC marches and such now, video taping the events for our protection from and LE organizations that might wish to overstep their authority.) Anyhow, what he proposes is some change to a section of ORC that deals specifically with the powers granted to public universities.
    My above post addressing SMMAssociates was for his benefit. He is very much a gentleman.

    If anybody really cares I was banned from OFCC because they don't appreciate my intolerance for misinformation. Especially when I point out the misinformation being touted as fact and if followed would cause the unknowing to be put at risk. To be on OFCC's forum you must espouse the hierarchies agenda. In other words, if you are not part of the in crowd you are skating on thin ice all the time. This statement is not directed at Brian D, BB62 or Werz.

    For the record, this is my opinion and my personal experience in dealing with OFCC. My statement is not intended to discourage anyone from partaking in whatever OFCC has to offer.

    I have found OCDO to be tolerant of brash disagreements. Of course most of us on OCDO are pretty thick skinned. We can take-it as well as dishing it out.

    Enough said.
    Last edited by color of law; 11-08-2015 at 02:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post

    If anybody really cares I was banned from OFCC because they don't appreciate my intolerance for misinformation. Especially when I point out the misinformation being touted as fact and if followed would cause the unknowing to be put at risk. To be on OFCC's forum you must espouse the hierarchies agenda. In other words, if you are not part of the in crowd you are skating on thin ice all the time. This statement is not directed at Brian D, BB62 or Werz.

    For the record, this is my opinion and my personal experience in dealing with OFCC. My statement is not intended to discourage anyone from partaking in whatever OFCC has to offer.

    Enough said.
    That is an amusing way to put it, and pretty accurate. Over there on Lake OFCC, I usually wear my dull bladed skates, and stay somewhat close to the shore line.

    But sometimes I'll do some barrel jumps and ignore the sound of the ice cracking under me, if an important point needs to be made. To date I haven't plunged through.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    It is almost 60 days after the fact. Were are all the in your face-this is the greatest lawsuit ever know-it-alls? I forgot, they said that the OSU open carry walk would destroyed any chance of a lawsuit succeeding. It is always the other guys fault.

    They can always refile the suit within a year. But, what is going to be discovered or legislation passed in the next year that's going to turn the lawsuit into a winner?

    If the Republican controlled general assembly and John Kasich passed into law major gun rights reforms, I would bet, Kasich would move up in the polls. After all, Kasich claims to be a pragmatist.
    You'll be glad to know that a member of OFCC's forums posted the following: "I cannot confirm or deny that your speculation is an accurate representation of the case. We (SCC) won't go into specifics in a public forum. We will be refiling a stronger case soon."

    So there!!


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