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Thread: Pistol OC coming to Texas...

  1. #1
    Regular Member TexasOC's Avatar
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    Pistol OC coming to Texas...

    ...but is it a good thing?

    I ask the question because when it does pass here, it will almost certainly be LICENSED open carry.

    A step in the right direction? Yes. But what will this mean for unlicensed long gun carry? Furthermore, if licensed OC passes now, how long will we then have to wait before constitutional carry gains political support? Momentum for gun rights legislation would certainly be lost. Would we be better off holding out and fighting for an Arizona-style deregulation? Or should we just take what we can get in the meantime?

    Just some things I've been pondering lately. Questions, comments, concerns, complaints?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Since MOST of the problem is unlicensed carry, I hope the unlicensed carry of long guns continues until the licenses are no longer required, at least for open carry of all firearms.

    OK to the north got open carry, but only for licensees. I really hope you guys don't settle for that. Because, as you say, you know that is all they are going to want to concede unless absolutely necessary.

    You're not fighting for open carry as much as you are fighting for unlicensed carry.

    I'm in Texas several times a year. I'll join you on the front lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasOC View Post
    ...but is it a good thing?

    I ask the question because when it does pass here, it will almost certainly be LICENSED open carry.

    A step in the right direction? Yes. But what will this mean for unlicensed long gun carry? Furthermore, if licensed OC passes now, how long will we then have to wait before constitutional carry gains political support? Momentum for gun rights legislation would certainly be lost. Would we be better off holding out and fighting for an Arizona-style deregulation? Or should we just take what we can get in the meantime?

    Just some things I've been pondering lately. Questions, comments, concerns, complaints?
    Once that happens, by the standards (mis)used by the courts today, the only people whose right would be denied are out-of-staters from places Texas doesn't have reciprocity with. We already know (from sad experience in CO) that that won't be sufficient to overturn the infringement.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Wait and see, I can't see them licensing OC, and then letting unlicensed long gun OC to continue. Once stuck with it, Texans will probably be stuck with it for decades.

    The road to gun control is paved with compromise. Licensing laws ARE GUN CONTROL.
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    Regular Member TexasOC's Avatar
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    So the question becomes: are we willing to sacrifice unlicensed long gun OC to obtain licensed handgun OC?

    In my mind, the answer is an obvious NO. However, if we could gain licensed handgun OC without changing long gun carry laws, it would be a step forward (albeit a slight one). This could be accomplished simply by modifying the existing CHL laws to include OC of handguns in addition to CC. I expect this to happen in the next legislative session.

    In the end though, it isn't good enough. Licensed OC is a prescription for constant harassment by LEOs. Sadly, I just don't see Texas pushing through any kind of constitutional carry of handguns, at least not any time soon.

    It's funny how Texas has the reputation around the US of being very gun friendly... in reality, I'd say we're horribly average when it comes to gun rights.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I don't follow, is there a proposed bill effecting long guns? How would repealing a prohibition in law regarding carrying handguns at all effect long gun OC unless the bill specifically mentioned the topic of LGOC?
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Both candidates for Governor in Texas support and stated they will sign a handgun open carry law. LGOC has made their point and there will be a legal form of handgun open carry. The problem is will it be in the form of liberty, or just another privilege. And will they leave long gun unlicensed carry alone.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasOC View Post
    ...
    . Would we be better off holding out and fighting for an Arizona-style deregulation? Or should we just take what we can get in the meantime?

    Just some things I've been pondering lately. Questions, comments, concerns, complaints?
    AZ did not get constitutional carry all at once it took decades and many changes in the laws to get were they are today.

    A win is a win and a step forward.
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    I would point to South Carolina's experience.

    Traditionally all gun carry in SC was regulated, concealed carry prohibited, gun carry in general only tolerated for special purposes like hunting. Then Grassroots Gun Rights South Carolina wrote and passed South Carolina's Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996 that enabled permitted concealed carry but at the cost of fee-paid training, a sop to the infringers.

    The Act and the debate had the unfortunate side effect of hardening the opposition to open/constitutional carry. We debated, long and hard, how to eat the elephant. Unfortunately GRGRSC choked on the elephant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I would point to South Carolina's experience.

    Traditionally all gun carry in SC was regulated, concealed carry prohibited, gun carry in general only tolerated for special purposes like hunting. Then Grassroots Gun Rights South Carolina wrote and passed South Carolina's Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996 that enabled permitted concealed carry but at the cost of fee-paid training, a sop to the infringers.

    The Act and the debate had the unfortunate side effect of hardening the opposition to open/constitutional carry. We debated, long and hard, how to eat the elephant. Unfortunately GRGRSC choked on the elephant.
    So on the one hand, you did make progress. It's possible to CC now, at some cost for training (hopefully at least some value there since you are paying for it, but who knows?) and if you bow and scrape the the bureaucrats, where it was impossible before. On the other hand, you'll never make more progress (leastwise, not for the foreseeable future).

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I would point to South Carolina's experience.

    Traditionally all gun carry in SC was regulated, concealed carry prohibited, gun carry in general only tolerated for special purposes like hunting. Then Grassroots Gun Rights South Carolina wrote and passed South Carolina's Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996 that enabled permitted concealed carry but at the cost of fee-paid training, a sop to the infringers.

    The Act and the debate had the unfortunate side effect of hardening the opposition to open/constitutional carry. We debated, long and hard, how to eat the elephant. Unfortunately GRGRSC choked on the elephant.
    The problem is, SC the bill of for open and constitutional carry keeps getting killed by committees which saves most reps from having to take a position on the issue,

    Nikki Haley claims she supports open carry. Can't she force the legislature to special session and then not release them until there's a floor vote? I know rick Perry did that for the abortion restrictions...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    I haven't followed SC legislature actions for some time. While I was there, the delaying mechanism was the Minority Report to the Contested Calendar, against which there is no defense and which kills the action for the whole session without extraordinary action.

    For instance, see current S.1141 http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess120_...bills/1141.htm

    and Senate Rules http://www.scstatehouse.gov/senatepage/senrule.php
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I don't think there's any way in hell they'd be stupid enough to try and touch what is essentially constitutional long gun carry. Long gun carry is completely unregulated in Texas law, nowhere in Texas law is the carry of a rifle specifically mentioned that I'm aware of. We have a disorderly conduct statute which regulates presenting yourself with the intent to cause alarm, and then there is the Texas Constitution Bill of Rights Section 23 which is akin to the second amendment of the US constitution.

    I would never support a bill that traded constitutional lgoc for licensed handgun oc.

    Your concern that licensed HGOC would result in a decline in the momentum toward constitutional carry is legitimate. However, I can tell you that the organization OCT, which is dedicated to the safe and legal carry of firearms openly in the state of Texas, is going nowhere regardless of what passes or does not pass in 2015. If what is passed in 2015 is licensed open carry, OCT will continue their drive toward constitutional carry.
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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasOC View Post
    Pistol OC coming to Texas...
    Says who? I heard the same thing every two years for at least a decade. Stop counting your chickens. Joe Straus and the Republican party already ate your eggs.
    Last edited by ()pen(arry; 07-17-2014 at 02:42 AM.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Says who? I heard the same thing every two years for at least a decade. Stop counting your chickens. Joe Straus and the Republican party already ate your eggs.
    Don't be such a pessimist..

    We've been gaining ground and you know it's so.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Don't be such a pessimist..

    We've been gaining ground and you know it's so.
    You need to do more than gain ground. There's an expiration date: when Texas turns blue. The closer that gets, the harder your job gets, as the Republican majority gets smaller and smaller. I give it 6 years before Texas turns blue. Can you defeat the big government Republicans in the next 6 years, with it getting harder every two years? I hope you do, but I don't see it happening.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    You need to do more than gain ground. There's an expiration date: when Texas turns blue. The closer that gets, the harder your job gets, as the Republican majority gets smaller and smaller. I give it 6 years before Texas turns blue. Can you defeat the big government Republicans in the next 6 years, with it getting harder every two years? I hope you do, but I don't see it happening.
    I'm confident in OC passing in 2015. The only thing I'm worried about is getting something like licensed OC and then momentum being lost.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    You need to do more than gain ground.
    I'm not sure how to break this to you, but you either gain ground, hold steady or lose ground. Of those three the only one that advances is to gain ground. Sometimes it happens by leaps and bounds, sometimes it's a hard fought struggle of inches.
    Gaining ground IS gaining ground, it IS advancement, and so long as it continues more freedoms and rights will be preserved.

    As to OC in Texas, if it becomes enough of an issue (gains ground) then eventually the tide will turn in favor of it. I doubt that having licensed open carry of concealable handguns is going to affect the carry of non-concealable rifles or shotguns. For that, you can look at Georgia which allows concealed or open carry of handguns with a license or unlicensed open carry of long arms. Right now we're working on not requiring a license for open, ... slowly but surely we gain ground.

    Heck, you can stick a musket under your overcoat or duster if it's unloaded. Or, with a license a long arm can be loaded and concealed under your tee-shirt.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-21-2014 at 10:02 AM.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Right now we're working on not requiring a license for open, ... slowly but surely we gain ground.
    I hope Texas gets OC, even if it's rescindable-at-will (aka licensed). Good luck, and more power to you.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Just because it would be licensed doesn't necessarily mean 'rescindable at will'; driving is a licensed activity and there are specific measures that have to be followed before a license can be revoked.

    Texas isn't Chicago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Just because it would be licensed doesn't necessarily mean 'rescindable at will'; driving is a licensed activity and there are specific measures that have to be followed before a license can be revoked.

    Texas isn't Chicago.
    Ironically, I think BOTH Texas and Chicago are glad that Texas isn't Chicago.

    Chicago has a lot of virtues and a lot of problems. Of the three Really Big Cities, it's the one I almost don't mind going to as long as I can forget about the gun situation there. Most of the problems would go away if they'd let people defend themselves.

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