• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Contesting A Restraining Order

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to see how this pans out. If there is a 72 hour protective order (ERO?) does this automatically become a longer one or does there have to be a hearing?

See http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-152.8

B. When a law-enforcement officer or an alleged victim asserts under oath to a judge or magistrate that such person is being or has been subjected to an act of violence, force, or threat and on that assertion or other evidence the judge or magistrate finds that (i) there is probable danger of a further such act being committed by the respondent against the alleged victim or (ii) a petition or warrant for the arrest of the respondent has been issued for any criminal offense resulting from the commission of an act of violence, force, or threat, the judge or magistrate shall issue an ex parte emergency protective order imposing one or more of the following conditions on the respondent: ....


C. An emergency protective order issued pursuant to this section shall expire at 11:59 p.m. on the third day following issuance. If the expiration occurs on a day that the court is not in session, the emergency protective order shall be extended until 11:59 p.m. on the next day that the court which issued the order is in session. The respondent may at any time file a motion with the court requesting a hearing to dissolve or modify the order. The hearing on the motion shall be given precedence on the docket of the court.

In plain words, your mother would have to file a petition for a "permanent" protective order. Your wife can file a motion at any time before the expiration of the 72 hours to dissolve or modify the emergency ex parte order while it still exists.

F. The issuance of an emergency protective order shall not be considered evidence of any wrongdoing by the respondent.


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+16.1-228

"Family or household member" means (i) the person's spouse, whether or not he or she resides in the same home with the person, (ii) the person's former spouse, whether or not he or she resides in the same home with the person, (iii) the person's parents, stepparents, children, stepchildren, brothers, sisters, half-brothers, half-sisters, grandparents and grandchildren, regardless of whether such persons reside in the same home with the person, (iv) the person's mother-in-law, father-in-law, sons-in-law, daughters-in-law, brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law who reside in the same home with the person, (v) any individual who has a child in common with the person, whether or not the person and that individual have been married or have resided together at any time, or (vi) any individual who cohabits or who, within the previous 12 months, cohabited with the person, and any children of either of them then residing in the same home with the person.

Looks like your mom cannot proceed against your wife as a 'family member". It's just going to be Person A is afraid that Person B .

Stop asking questions here and start asking your questions to an attorney.

stay safe.
 

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,049
Location
Doug
I agree with Bob1. Why didn't you report this assault on your wife? I'm not married but I've been with the same woman 10 years (so basically) and if my mother tried to choke her I'd kick her ass and have her locked up. This violent behavior isn't something that just happens first time someone gets mad. Choking someone is essentially an attempt to kill. I'm going to take an educate guess and say your mom abused you as well. This is what you get for not dealing properly with it. Don't be surprised if your inability to protect your wife ends up in divorce. Don't take this the wrong way, but aren't you carrying to protect her?
 

Esanders2008

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
576
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
I agree with Bob1. Why didn't you report this assault on your wife? I'm not married but I've been with the same woman 10 years (so basically) and if my mother tried to choke her I'd kick her ass and have her locked up. This violent behavior isn't something that just happens first time someone gets mad. Choking someone is essentially an attempt to kill. I'm going to take an educate guess and say your mom abused you as well. This is what you get for not dealing properly with it. Don't be surprised if your inability to protect your wife ends up in divorce. Don't take this the wrong way, but aren't you carrying to protect her?

Wow. Just wow. First, we immediately went and filed a police report and swore out a warrant for my mom's arrest. Secondly, are you really asking me to shoot my mother?! (Even if it had been someone else, I couldn't have taken the shot, as my brother was right behind her trying to drag her off my wife.) Third, my wife and I have talked about the situation and she doesn't fault me at all. Please keep all future comments on topic.

ETA: Just because I carry a hammer, doesn't mean every problem is a nail. You have to weigh to decisions. I could pay $1000 for an attorney to clear this up, or I could spend A LOT of money defending myself on homicide charges. We were able to get away, and my wife only sustained superficial cuts ands bruises.
 
Last edited:

MontanaResident

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
160
Location
Montana
And I talked to a couple of attorneys. They want $1000 for a "simple" case and more if it is more complex

$1000 just to create the contract and to sign it. Complications and additional charges henceforth... :(

My philosophy, once you hire a lawyer, you've lost.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Is that 72 hours from service or from when the magistrate or judge says "here's the order"

Ask an attorney. They will explain that an order begins when the judge signs it.

It appears to be appropriate to publically declare that I am growing tired of your fawning pleas for legal information coupled with your almost absolute refusal to spend money that you say you have but have earmarked for other purposes. You claim that both you and your wife put your RKBA as the first order of business but you are consistently saying you are willing to roll the dice to see if she will come under a permanent protective order.

If it takes repeated pointing out of these facts about making the decision to spend money on an attorney as opposed to whatever you are saving up cash for the coming birth of your child, I will take on that chore. Willingly.

Based on our few face-to-face contacts I can honestly say I like you. But that is open to reevaluation if you continue the line of behavior and posting you have been exhibiting. I don't know, or really care, if that means anything to you.

stay safe.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
$1000 just to create the contract and to sign it. Complications and additional charges henceforth... :(

My philosophy, once you hire a lawyer, you've lost.

My philosophy: sometimes hiring an attorney is infinately wiser than trying to represent yourself in an area where you have no knowledge or understanding. Or when the law hamstrings your ability to present an appropriate defense.

If you are telling Esanders to forego legal representation, I wonder if you are prepared to cover the costs of your advice resulting in a highly negative outcome?

stay safe.
 

Esanders2008

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
576
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Ask an attorney. They will explain that an order begins when the judge signs it.

It appears to be appropriate to publically declare that I am growing tired of your fawning pleas for legal information coupled with your almost absolute refusal to spend money that you say you have but have earmarked for other purposes. You claim that both you and your wife put your RKBA as the first order of business but you are consistently saying you are willing to roll the dice to see if she will come under a permanent protective order.

If it takes repeated pointing out of these facts about making the decision to spend money on an attorney as opposed to whatever you are saving up cash for the coming birth of your child, I will take on that chore. Willingly.

Based on our few face-to-face contacts I can honestly say I like you. But that is open to reevaluation if you continue the line of behavior and posting you have been exhibiting. I don't know, or really care, if that means anything to you.

stay safe.

Skid: as you have said, we have only had face-to-face contact a few times, but I consider you a wise person and a source of knowledge. I also respect your opinions. I don't really want to put my financial situation out there for all to see, but I will say that this isn't a decision of choosing between hiring an attorney or paying for baby supplies. It is closer to choosing between paying rent and hiring an attorney. Because of debt I was saddled with after my divorce from my first wife, I am unable to obtain credit. I have no credit cards. The money to hire the attorney simply isn't there. The money I do have isn't enough to cover the legal costs. I came here to ask for advice because I know there are people here who are intimately familiar with the system. I consider myself pretty intelligent, and I also know my limitations. If I had the money, I'd hire counsel, but since I don't, nor do I have any source to pull from, I can't. Again, I appreciate your candor, and I hope this doesn't diminish your opinion of me.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Under Virginia law? Yes.

Esanders

TROs go before a judge for a full-on hearing of the merits. Get yourself an attorney.

Forget aout one who is 2A-friendly, or even knows what 2A means. Your wife needs an attorney who specializes in domestic relations. The meanest junkyard dog of a divorce lawyer you two can find.

You know, we know, and the judge will probably know that the restraining order is retaliatory, but the judge will not care because issuing it will C his A in case anything goes wrong. ("See. I did everything I could to prevent this senseless murder.")

Not that your wife is likely to kill your mother, but it's happened between other folks' wives and those other folks' mothers.

If a hearing is scheduled before you retain an attorney, suck up the restrictions and ask for a continuance. Your wife would have better luck defending herself against criminal charges than defending herself on domestic relations issues.

stay safe.

Skidmark
Thank you for your reply. I will not question you Sir on Virginia Law, however, I would argue that a " Restraining Order" in and of itself, should not constitute a valid reason for denying a citizen of his/her right 'to keep and bear arms" nor violate a citizens right to "due process' under the Constitution. In my humble opinion, the law is clearly unconstitutional in that it violates a citizens 2A ,9thA and 14thA.

Also consider this situation, would the court force a person to surrender his/her motor vehicles, for fear said person may attempt to run over the person taking out the restraining order? I see no difference in the choice of possible weapons in either situation.

In my opinion one should not have to give up essential liberty's, life,liberty and property simply due in part to a RO.(Except where criminal actions were previously committed) And that does not appear to be the case in this situation.
An RO should simply define the distance that the restrained person must keep away, apart, from the restrainer, 300 yards seems about right.

My .02

Regards
CCJ
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Restraining Orders = useless pieces of paper that do nothing to protect anyone, and frequently punish the innocent.

Maybe they make the children feel better, but that is about all, save as an add-on charge.

As useless as grits on a hog.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Esanders -

Telling people you have money saved up for the coming baby and then crying poor is suspicious at best. I'm not going to even begin to think abot saying anything about folks who know they are living on the ragged edge of paycheck to paycheck adding a major expense to their lives. What I will do is ask if you and your wife have been in contact with the local health department about services and programs they offer pre- and post-delivery, and if your wife has yet been denied for WIC and if the two of you have been rejected for whatever they are calling Food Stamps these days.

As for how you feel about the effects of a restraining order - find out who your Delegate and Senator are and start working on them to change the law. It's admittedly going to be an uphill fight for an essentially unpopular viewpoint, but if you don't like it start working to change it. Crying about how evil and unfair it is does not cut it.

But since more than 24 hours seem to have passed since you first started freaking out about the possibility of a restraining order, it just may be that one was a) not sough or b) the application was turned down. But if you still want to worry about it, here's a sort-of-outside-the-box notion - have your wife call the Commonwealth Attorney's office and talk to them about your mom trying to intimidate her into dropping the criminal charges. Be sure she uses the word "intimidate" as often as possible.

stay safe.
 

MontanaResident

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
160
Location
Montana
My philosophy: sometimes hiring an attorney is infinately wiser than trying to represent yourself in an area where you have no knowledge or understanding. Or when the law hamstrings your ability to present an appropriate defense.

If you are telling Esanders to forego legal representation, I wonder if you are prepared to cover the costs of your advice resulting in a highly negative outcome?

stay safe.

Most lawyers aren't worth spit. They charge exorbitant fees, to file papers and write letters. Once in the courtroom it's all about the judge. People are best served in working out issues amongst themselves and to avoid lawyers and the courts.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Most lawyers aren't worth spit. They charge exorbitant fees, to file papers and write letters. Once in the courtroom it's all about the judge. People are best served in working out issues amongst themselves and to avoid lawyers and the courts.
Bite the hand that feeds you much? The owners of OCDO are both attorneys and give us much more than that for which we pay.

Also, it is against Forum Rules to insult/attack anyone based on their occupation:

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc).

I know a number of attorneys who have taken cases pro bono, sometimes not even charging for out of pocket expenses. An even greater number have defended at considerably reduced rates.
 

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,049
Location
Doug
Wow. Just wow. First, we immediately went and filed a police report and swore out a warrant for my mom's arrest. Secondly, are you really asking me to shoot my mother?! (Even if it had been someone else, I couldn't have taken the shot, as my brother was right behind her trying to drag her off my wife.) Third, my wife and I have talked about the situation and she doesn't fault me at all. Please keep all future comments on topic.

ETA: Just because I carry a hammer, doesn't mean every problem is a nail. You have to weigh to decisions. I could pay $1000 for an attorney to clear this up, or I could spend A LOT of money defending myself on homicide charges. We were able to get away, and my wife only sustained superficial cuts ands bruises.



Don't jump on me. You need to explain yourself fully. I am assuming that you're telling me everything. Your story has so many holes in it I'm surprised that you even know what happened.



I never suggested you shoot your mother. I just asked a simple question and offered up an analogy to highlight the ridiculousness of your just sitting there.



Those "superficial" cuts and bruises should never have happened. You owe your wife an apology.
 
Last edited:

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,049
Location
Doug
Bite the hand that feeds you much? The owners of OCDO are both attorneys and give us much more than that for which we pay.

Also, it is against Forum Rules to insult/attack anyone based on their occupation:

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc).

I know a number of attorneys who have taken cases pro bono, sometimes not even charging for out of pocket expenses. An even greater number have defended at considerably reduced rates.


I love lawyers. Over 75% of all charges ever brought against me dismissed because I exercised my 5th amendment rights and let them do what they do. Even the inexperienced ones can save your ass if you understand what your rights actually are and ****. Most people who rag on lawyers are incapable of shutting their mouths and put the nails in their own coffins.
 

MontanaResident

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
160
Location
Montana
Bite the hand that feeds you much? The owners of OCDO are both attorneys and give us much more than that for which we pay.

Also, it is against Forum Rules to insult/attack anyone based on their occupation:

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc).

I know a number of attorneys who have taken cases pro bono, sometimes not even charging for out of pocket expenses. An even greater number have defended at considerably reduced rates.

No offense directed at you or the other poster responded to. Certainly some lawyers are outstanding servants to the public good. And some are not so. Perhaps not in your bag of experiences is to have met one that is a glorified "Ambulance Chaser", that abuses the system, promotes fraud and attempts to make victims of those in the blast radius. My brother is an Architect and he went thru the legal system (at cost to himself) as a man/lawyer attempted to sue everybody that put pen to paper, delivered supplies, poured an ounce of concrete, or drove a nail into a board on his not perfect home. Get to know a doctor or two, or talk to yours. Lawyers encourage plaintiffs to go after health service providers, cause they got money or liability insurance such that money is paid to avoid what is called nuisance suits. The legal system is rife with abuse and it's lawyers that drive it.
 

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,049
Location
Doug
No offense directed at you or the other poster responded to. Certainly some lawyers are outstanding servants to the public good. And some are not so. Perhaps not in your bag of experiences is to have met one that is a glorified "Ambulance Chaser", that abuses the system, promotes fraud and attempts to make victims of those in the blast radius. My brother is an Architect and he went thru the legal system (at cost to himself) as a man/lawyer attempted to sue everybody that put pen to paper, delivered supplies, poured an ounce of concrete, or drove a nail into a board on his not perfect home. Get to know a doctor or two, or talk to yours. Lawyers encourage plaintiffs to go after health service providers, cause they got money or liability insurance such that money is paid to avoid what is called nuisance suits. The legal system is rife with abuse and it's lawyers that drive it.



And their ******* clients. I stack it up to individuals being jerks.



I have had two lawyers not even try to defend me and I fired them on the spot. One was crooked as hell and the judge commanded me to retain his services at the request of the DA which prompted me to wheel him and his chair to the door (judge got the idea after that) and the other was drunk. My beef with them is on a personal level.
 
Last edited:
Top