Cincinnati's Washington park One bad cop one good one.

Liberty Sanders · Jul 17, 2014

P.S.

Reasonable articulable suspicion to make a Terry Stop did NOT exist in this case. You were detained illegally. I encourage you to make an official complaint.

color of law · Jul 17, 2014

If ps1mhd chooses to make a formal complaint, I would be happy to assist him in any way.

MyWifeSaidYes · Jul 19, 2014

I sent the mayor and chief an email with a link to both the video AND the open carry memo ("Staff Notes" July, 2012 - stored on THEIR server).

I suggested that, at a minimum, all officers should get that memo again.

ps1mhd · Jul 21, 2014

I hate my camera!
I went back up there Sunday after about a half hour security Clay told me
he had called police again and for me to stay around so of course I did as he said :banana:
Every time I passed him walking around I heard him telling people I was just trying to prove my manhood :shocker:
Two marked units were there talking with each other and then drove away. After about 10 min. a Sgt. showed up and said I was OK and that he was going to talk with park security and tell them the law on OC. They talked for maybe 10 min. One of them didn't look happy you can guess which one. As that was going on I talked with 3 groups of people about OC and the law.
When I got home I found that my camera stopped after 28 minutes :banghead:
I hate my camera! I had my audio recorder on but have not checked it yet. Listening to 60+ minutes of mostly
me walking is boring.

Mike

color of law · Jul 21, 2014

Pictures at eleven......

Some security guards just should not be a security guard.

Good job Mike.

color of law · Jul 21, 2014

Here is a link to the Washington Park Rules.
http://washingtonpark.org/features-of-the-park/park-rules/

The rules say: ...the following are prohibited. - Discharging of weapons or firearms.

This security guy is way out of line.

fjpro2a · Jul 21, 2014

My biggest fear

ps1mhd, You did an outstanding job. Everyone of the LEO's learned something from Officer Clay understanding the legality of OCing to the other LEO's quickly and calmly agreeing with you. My biggest fear, though, is some judge "overturning" the Terry Stop ruling saying something along the lines of:

"Even in the absence of an RAS, in this day and age, it is OK for LEO to temporarily stop someone open carrying to make sure the open carrier is allowed to have a firearm as long as the stop is no longer than xxx minutes."

My pessimism seems to grow a little every day.

BB62 · Jul 21, 2014

fjpro2a said:
ps1mhd, You did an outstanding job. Everyone of the LEO's learned something from Officer Clay understanding the legality of OCing to the other LEO's quickly and calmly agreeing with you...

FYI, it's not "Officer" Clay, it's "Security Guy" Clay.

MyWifeSaidYes · Jul 21, 2014

fjpro2a said:
ps1mhd, You did an outstanding job. Everyone of the LEO's learned something from Officer Clay understanding the legality of OCing to the other LEO's quickly and calmly agreeing with you. My biggest fear, though, is some judge "overturning" the Terry Stop ruling saying something along the lines of:

"Even in the absence of an RAS, in this day and age, it is OK for LEO to temporarily stop someone open carrying to make sure the open carrier is allowed to have a firearm as long as the stop is no longer than xxx minutes."

My pessimism seems to grow a little every day.

Yeah, but you live in New Jersey.

THAT'S your problem, right there.

Rusty Young Man · Jul 21, 2014

ps1mhd said:
I hate my camera!
I went back up there Sunday after about a half hour security Clay told me
he had called police again and for me to stay around so of course I did as he said :banana:
Every time I passed him walking around I heard him telling people I was just trying to prove my manhood :shocker:
Two marked units were there talking with each other and then drove away. After about 10 min. a Sgt. showed up and said I was OK and that he was going to talk with park security and tell them the law on OC. They talked for maybe 10 min. One of them didn't look happy you can guess which one. As that was going on I talked with 3 groups of people about OC and the law.
When I got home I found that my camera stopped after 28 minutes :banghead:
I hate my camera! I had my audio recorder on but have not checked it yet. Listening to 60+ minutes of mostly
me walking is boring.

Mike

And THAT is the reason for the old adage of "Two is one, and one is none."

I had my voice recorder stop on me several times now, but at least my video kept rolling; am currently looking for a new voice recorder.

Great to hear about the security guy getting &¡7?$-slapped with the wording of the law.:lol: Wish I could have been there to see it.

MyWifeSaidYes · Jul 21, 2014

Rusty Young Man said:
...am currently looking for a new voice recorder...

What model do you have?

I have a Sony PX312 (about $60) but the current version (PX333) is still the same price and available at Walmart.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-Digital-Voice-Recorder-with-4GB-Flash-Memory/24458354

OC for ME · Jul 22, 2014

Troy bilt said:
You handled yourself well. Thanks for sharing.

The cop at the end handled the situation well also. The only thing I did not like is when he said something in the line of you where just out to get them on youtube. Looks to me as you where just out exercising your right and was forced into an unwanted detainment with a LEO that was very poorly trained or just decided to ignore his training.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience but thank you for sharing.

"I didn't get the memo...sorry" should never be the accepted excuse. Hold that thug cop, and his boss, to account.

Rusty Young Man · Jul 22, 2014

MyWifeSaidYes said:
What model do you have?

I have a Sony PX312 (about $60) but the current version (PX333) is still the same price and available at Walmart.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-Digital-Voice-Recorder-with-4GB-Flash-Memory/24458354

I carry an Olympus Voice recorder (VN-702PC)
Used to be $44 (now $62.49?

)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ils?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1379970511&seller=&sr=1-1

Thinking about getting the 722PC version of it.

OC for ME said:
"I didn't get the memo...sorry" should never be the accepted excuse. Hold that thug cop, and his boss, to account.

Agreed. Go get em.

BB62 · Aug 2, 2014

ps1mhd said:
This happened this pass weekend.
I know I'm a bad cameraman:lol:
Cincinnati PD is petty good about OC.
I have had Cincinnati PD shack my hand and say most of them support 2A.
This is my 1st negative contact...

While OCing, I had a chance encounter with the Chief this evening in Washington Park. I had sent him a couple of e-mails, one of which might have gotten caught in a spam filter, but hadn't yet gotten a response - and I let him know that.

Part of the content of my e-mail referred to your incident. He recognized that the Sgt. didn't know the law.

It was a productive conversation. He was surprised that his designate hadn't gotten back to me yet, but he promised that he would. I will post more when I know more, since my e-mail also referenced the larger issue of police/OCer interaction.

BB62 · Aug 7, 2014

BB62 said:
While OCing, I had a chance encounter with the Chief this evening in Washington Park. I had sent him a couple of e-mails, one of which might have gotten caught in a spam filter, but hadn't yet gotten a response - and I let him know that.

Part of the content of my e-mail referred to your incident. He recognized that the Sgt. didn't know the law.

It was a productive conversation. He was surprised that his designate hadn't gotten back to me yet, but he promised that he would. I will post more when I know more, since my e-mail also referenced the larger issue of police/OCer interaction.

UPDATE:

I had a VERY negative interaction Tuesday evening with the head of a one of Cincinnati's police districts that was the second part of the e-mail I referred to above. It occurred at a National Night Out event when I walked over to introduce myself to him. His reaction, instead of professionalism, was anger, rudeness, arrogance, dismissiveness, defensiveness, etc. etc. I was stunned.

I wrote to the Chief again yesterday about the matter, after not yet having gotten a response from my first e-mail. I'm hoping for the best, but I'm beginning to wonder if the Chief was just blowing smoke last Saturday in Washington Park. The thought doesn't please me at all.

ps1mhd · Aug 12, 2014

BB62 said:
UPDATE:

I had a VERY negative interaction Tuesday evening with the head of a one of Cincinnati's police districts that was the second part of the e-mail I referred to above. It occurred at a National Night Out event when I walked over to introduce myself to him. His reaction, instead of professionalism, was anger, rudeness, arrogance, dismissiveness, defensiveness, etc. etc. I was stunned.

I wrote to the Chief again yesterday about the matter, after not yet having gotten a response from my first e-mail. I'm hoping for the best, but I'm beginning to wonder if the Chief was just blowing smoke last Saturday in Washington Park. The thought doesn't please me at all.

Any more of these events coming up?
If I'm off I would try to be there.

Mike

color of law · Aug 12, 2014

ps1mhd said:
Any more of these events coming up?
If I'm off I would try to be there.

Mike

None that I know of as of now.

Brian D. · Aug 13, 2014

Typically, as memory serves, those National Night Out events are once-a-year things.

davidmcbeth · Aug 17, 2014

All this talk about "causing alarm" by cops are always bogus. How do we know? Because the people who say that they are alarmed STAY THERE.

Now if swimming off the beach and you see a shark, you might get alarmed. And then get the heck out of the water !

But cops come up and say that these people claim to be alarmed and then still hang out in the area. And other folks are still in the area going about their business normally. Hardly alarm.

ps1mhd · Oct 26, 2014

UPDATE: 24 OCT 2014 Cincinnati PD LT. called ME She said she had talked with the Sgt.
and informed him of the open carry laws. He had been working as a investigator and just been promoted to Sgt. and asked if I wanted to make a complaint I said no that I was ok with him learning from this.
She also said she has worked events and has seen me at some of them

How does she know what I look like:question:
She also said after I asked that there computer people had got my name, phone # and E-mail address.
:uhoh: Big Brother is watching

Mike D

Cincinnati's Washington park One bad cop one good one.

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