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Thread: Cop Clash Caught On Camera

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Cop Clash Caught On Camera

    OC related? I'll let management decide.
    MIAMI (CBSMiami) – A Miami police officer has been relieved of duty pending the outcome of investigation where he and another cop clashed during a traffic stop. It was captured on the traffic cop’s personal video camera that he mounted on the dash of his squad car.

    http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/07/14...ght-on-camera/
    My OC connection, tenuous as it may be, is the need to record every interaction with LE. Even in OC friendly jurisdictions. You will likely have many hours of you doing normal and boring stuff, which is a good thing. The cop had to equip his cruiser at his own expense and it appears that his investment may pay him back in spades. My only suggestion is to equip your vehicle with a go pro camera, or two.

    If this thread does not meet the requirements of management...OK.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Video cams and digital recorders provide CYA coverage and are highly recommended as a normal, daily thing - good advice for those that carry.

    This thread provides an example and demonstrates the benefit.

    Note that the event took place in Florida, where common people can't OC except under limited conditions.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-15-2014 at 01:32 PM. Reason: added
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    ha ha ha .. they will both lose their jobs because of the video ! aaaaaw-some.

    save taxpayers some cash

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I rather doubt the uniformed officer will be reprimanded in any way. His actions are exactly what they should have been, regardless of the "rank" of the person he stopped for suspected speeding.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Beat cop suspended, the LT reassigned.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Beat cop suspended, the LT reassigned.
    that's what i read too. The on-duty cop who stopped the off duty/plainclothes guy was the one suspended, not the guy was was speeding/started the altercation.


    It's interesting their PD doesnt have dash cams so the on duty cop was using his own gopro.


    I read another article earlier in the week where a target security guard caught a sheriff deputy stealing on camera TWICE! the second time, he took the footage to the PD and filed a report........... The security guard was fired the next day for gross negligence. Target said he didnt have permission to file a report like he has done dozens of times before.

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    A new TV show "COP CLASH!"....cops beating up on other cops ....

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    The report says suspended; so, does that mean "suspended without pay" or "suspended with pay pending investigation"?

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    GoPro for the win!

    I'm glad the officer had the GoPro rolling in his car, I bet its gonna save his job by the end of the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Video cams and digital recorders provide CYA coverage and are highly recommended as a normal, daily thing - good advice for those that carry.This thread provides an example and demonstrates the benefit.

    Note that the event took place in Florida, where common people can't OC except under limited conditions.



    Im sure this has been asked before, but isnt it illegal to record in Florida without concent. I do know we are a two-party concent state. But as for law enforcement are we in the clear? Found this:

    Florida Wiretapping Law
    Florida's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. Florida makes it a crime to intercept or record a "wire, oral, or electronic communication" in Florida, unless all parties to the communication consent. See Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03. Florida law makes an exception for in-person communications when the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation, such as when they are engaged in conversation in a public place where they might reasonably be overheard. If you are operating in Florida, you may record these kinds of in-person conversations without breaking the law. However, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any telephone conversation and any in-person that common sense tells you is private.


    If you are out on a pier OC'ing that is a public place with no R.E.P. What about if you get pulled over? Your vehicle is an extension of your home, therefor do you have a R.E.P., so by this wouldnt you have to get concent even though it is a public official performing official duties?

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    Quote Originally Posted by michigan0626 View Post
    Im sure this has been asked before, but isnt it illegal to record in Florida without concent. I do know we are a two-party concent state. But as for law enforcement are we in the clear? Found this:

    Florida Wiretapping Law
    Florida's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. Florida makes it a crime to intercept or record a "wire, oral, or electronic communication" in Florida, unless all parties to the communication consent. See Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03. Florida law makes an exception for in-person communications when the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation, such as when they are engaged in conversation in a public place where they might reasonably be overheard. If you are operating in Florida, you may record these kinds of in-person conversations without breaking the law. However, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any telephone conversation and any in-person that common sense tells you is private.


    If you are out on a pier OC'ing that is a public place with no R.E.P. What about if you get pulled over? Your vehicle is an extension of your home, therefor do you have a R.E.P., so by this wouldnt you have to get concent even though it is a public official performing official duties?
    Your vehicle is an extension of your home
    No it's not, really. But that is irrelevant to this discussion.

    A LEO while conducting official business, has no expectation of privacy.

    You may legally record anyone on a public street or elsewhere, no problem. Unless they are conversing in such a manner that would indicate to a reasonable person that they intend the conversation to be 'private'.

    The legal definition of what you may not record is: “Oral communication” means any oral communication uttered by a person exhibiting an expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation and does not mean any public oral communication uttered at a public meeting or any electronic communication.

    Alternatively just say "I'm recording", then no one could possibly have any reasonable expectation that they are't being recorded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    No it's not, really. But that is irrelevant to this discussion.

    A LEO while conducting official business, has no expectation of privacy.

    You may legally record anyone on a public street or elsewhere, no problem. Unless they are conversing in such a manner that would indicate to a reasonable person that they intend the conversation to be 'private'.

    The legal definition of what you may not record is: “Oral communication” means any oral communication uttered by a person exhibiting an expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation and does not mean any public oral communication uttered at a public meeting or any electronic communication.

    Alternatively just say "I'm recording", then no one could possibly have any reasonable expectation that they are't being recorded.

    Let me know if I get this right:

    I may record a LEO (either with audio, video, or with both) at anytime he is on official business (in uniform), even if he makes it seem he is trying to communicate privately.

    I may record someone in a public setting without concent. However, if they pull me to the side, away from people, in a public place but giving the indication they want to talk privately I cannot record. Unless I advice them that I am recording.


    p.s. I put the car is an extension thing because castle doctrine extends there, so thats why I assumed it would be unreasonable to expect privacy, even on a public road.
    Last edited by michigan0626; 07-24-2014 at 10:39 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michigan0626 View Post
    Let me know if I get this right:

    I may record a LEO (either with audio, video, or with both) at anytime he is on official business (in uniform), even if he makes it seem he is trying to communicate privately.
    Generally speaking, Yes. But saying "on official business (in uniform)" can be risky. Better to confine yurself to "public places".

    I may record someone in a public setting without concent. However, if they pull me to the side, away from people, in a public place but giving the indication they want to talk privately I cannot record. Unless I advice them that I am recording.
    Read your state law and case law very carefully. Some places you can photograph/video with impunity but cannot audio record unless both parties consent. In two-party states you can audio record after you have advised the other party and they do not affirmatively tell you they do not consent -- if case law in your state upholds that as opposed to saying anything short of an affirmative grant of permission is a refusal of consent.


    p.s. I put the car is an extension thing because castle doctrine extends there, so thats why I assumed it would be unreasonable to expect privacy, even on a public road.
    Castle doctrine has squat to do with recording in a public paceunless your state law/case law specifically says so. You take your car out on the public roads and you are out in public.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelina View Post
    I'm glad the officer had the GoPro rolling in his car, I bet its gonna save his job by the end of the day.
    GoPro is not the only possibility. Some of the under-$25 dash cams on Amazon are amazingly good (just watch any of the Russian driving videos on YouTube). At that price it is possible to consider a second one pointed at you/the driver's side window so you do not have reach up and fidle with anything as Officer Friendly walks up to talk with you about the local high school football team or whatever else might be on his mind. Another nice feature of those dash cams, when used with a SD card, is they record in 15-minute segments (anywhere from 10 to 25 segments) and then start overwriting the first segment. Not much need to worry about hitting storage capacity at the critical moment.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Generally speaking, Yes. But saying "on official business (in uniform)" can be risky. Better to confine yurself to "public places".



    Read your state law and case law very carefully. Some places you can photograph/video with impunity but cannot audio record unless both parties consent. In two-party states you can audio record after you have advised the other party and they do not affirmatively tell you they do not consent -- if case law in your state upholds that as opposed to saying anything short of an affirmative grant of permission is a refusal of consent.




    Castle doctrine has squat to do with recording in a public paceunless your state law/case law specifically says so. You take your car out on the public roads and you are out in public.

    stay safe.

    thank you. i am attempting to find any pertinent case laws. never looked it up before, not sure how.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michigan0626 View Post
    Let me know if I get this right:

    I may record a LEO (either with audio, video, or with both) at anytime he is on official business (in uniform), even if he makes it seem he is trying to communicate privately.

    I may record someone in a public setting without concent. However, if they pull me to the side, away from people, in a public place but giving the indication they want to talk privately I cannot record. Unless I advice them that I am recording.


    p.s. I put the car is an extension thing because castle doctrine extends there, so thats why I assumed it would be unreasonable to expect privacy, even on a public road.
    The phrase you are looking for is "In the lawful performance of his/her duties" being in uniform does not enter into this. Nothing a LEO does while in the lawful performance of his/her duties is 'private'.

    You run into someone in the men's room and strike up a conversation, it's probably reasonable to assume that it would not be lawful to record them.

    castle doctrine
    Media sound bites are always incorrect representations (sensationalize) of the relevant law and should be avoided at all costs. In Florida, what we have are Justifiable Use of Force statutes, that encompass the always misconstrued "Stand Your Ground Law" and the so-called 'Castle Doctrine", and more recently the "Warning Shot" law.

    However, if they pull me to the side, away from people, in a public place but giving the indication they want to talk privately I cannot record. Unless I advice them that I am recording.
    Humm...If you willing go with them, then I think it reasonable to assume that both of you are engaged in an "Oral Communication" and have a reasonable belief that your conversation would not be intercepted.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 07-24-2014 at 12:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michigan0626 View Post
    thank you. i am attempting to find any pertinent case laws. never looked it up before, not sure how.
    Take some Aspirin and pack a lunch......http://scholar.google.com/
    Enter the statute number in the search box, then on the next screen, select case law, the Select Courts, then select the courts your interested in.

    Now you'll see why I suggested the Aspirin and lunch.

    Enjoy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Take some Aspirin and pack a lunch......http://scholar.google.com/
    Enter the statute number in the search box, then on the next screen, select case law, the Select Courts, then select the courts your interested in.

    Now you'll see why I suggested the Aspirin and lunch.

    Enjoy!
    Don't forget ... google scholar may not show lower court rulings ... and don't forget to chk any cases to see if they have been upended ... see? The law means nothing.

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