tattedupboy
Regular Member
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/1...illy-mother-facing-three-years-on-gun-charge/
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Law abiding Pennsylvania mother victimized by New Jersey gun laws
- Thread starter tattedupboy
- Start date
1 - she may have been law-abiding in PA, but she was a scofflaw, a common criminal, in NJ.
2 - she was not victimized. Except perhaps by her own stupidity. (That's right - stupidity. Not ignorance. Stupidity.)
3 - it is a shame that more folks are not aware of the issue of reciprocity, and even if they are that they do not check the fine print on reciprocity between their home state and where they are planning to wind up.
4 - other than hiring a cadre of instructors armed with 2x4s I have no idea of how to make what seems to be the vast majority of law-abiding gun owners aware of the concept of reciprocity and how it applies to anywhere they might go outside their home state.
stay safe.
2 - she was not victimized. Except perhaps by her own stupidity. (That's right - stupidity. Not ignorance. Stupidity.)
3 - it is a shame that more folks are not aware of the issue of reciprocity, and even if they are that they do not check the fine print on reciprocity between their home state and where they are planning to wind up.
4 - other than hiring a cadre of instructors armed with 2x4s I have no idea of how to make what seems to be the vast majority of law-abiding gun owners aware of the concept of reciprocity and how it applies to anywhere they might go outside their home state.
stay safe.
Grim_Night
Regular Member
One of the comments to the story...
How exactly is it possible to know all the laws of every state? Just makes me chuckle.
How exactly is it possible to know all the laws of every state? Just makes me chuckle.
countryclubjoe
Regular Member
The carrying of a hand gun by a law abiding citizen from State to State, should not be criminalized by any particular State law.
A law abiding citizen should have a right to keep an bear arms in defense of his/her life and property where ever they travel without fear of being made into a criminal.
My .02
The bogus stop for an improper lane change in the early morning hours is also a joke.
Regards
CCJ
A law abiding citizen should have a right to keep an bear arms in defense of his/her life and property where ever they travel without fear of being made into a criminal.
My .02
The bogus stop for an improper lane change in the early morning hours is also a joke.
Regards
CCJ
davidmcbeth
Banned
Exactly ... and I will never yield my gun(s) to the state.
mtlhdtodd
Regular Member
That's why you never disclose and never consent to a vehicle search.
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sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
She is still law abiding in my opinion.
Where is the victim? NO Victim no crime. Breaking an unconstitutional law is not breaking a law.
Where is the victim? NO Victim no crime. Breaking an unconstitutional law is not breaking a law.
TTTinker
New member
I feel bad for the lady but that wasn't a very smart move. New Jersey's totalitarian view of guns is well know (or should be) by anyone wanting to carry. I travel across the country every year, but because I spend overnight in NJ I have to leave my weapon at my folks in PA. :banghead:
countryclubjoe
Regular Member
Hi TTTinker
Welcome to OCDO. How did that make you feel, when traveling from PA to NJ unarmed and defenseless against those that may wish to do you ill will?
Law abiding citizens should not be left to feel helpless against those folks(criminals) that wish to do us harm. We have a right to feel secure in our person/property.. The draconian gun laws in NJ strip the law abiding citizen from feeling secure in his/her right to protect their life and their property,your life by the way is your property therefore the State is in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
My .02
Regards
CCJ
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
I had that happen in Redmond Washington. There was no changing of lanes in the first place in my case. Was cuffed and harassed because I was carrying.
davidmcbeth
Banned
And just because there was a technical violation of the law does not mean that the cop had to arrest either.
A decent cop would have just said "You know you are in NJ? I suggest you head back over to PA.".
Situations like this are exactly why we have separation of powers ... to stop abuses by legislatures.
A decent cop would have just said "You know you are in NJ? I suggest you head back over to PA.".
Situations like this are exactly why we have separation of powers ... to stop abuses by legislatures.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
That is exactly what they should have done. Yet they now they get a notch in their belt, get to count her in the numbers of evil criminals they are in dire need to to thwart and use it as a rationalization to steal more money for themselves from their employers who are really nothing but tax slaves.
davidmcbeth
Banned
I wonder if the citizen just refuses to go back to NJ for trial ?
Would the state of PA defend her from being snatched by NJ?
Would PA just tell NJ to drop dead, that they will offer no assistance?
Would PA tell NJ to stay out of PA for this purpose?
Could this turn into another Bundy ranch scenario?
Would the state of PA defend her from being snatched by NJ?
Would PA just tell NJ to drop dead, that they will offer no assistance?
Would PA tell NJ to stay out of PA for this purpose?
Could this turn into another Bundy ranch scenario?
countryclubjoe
Regular Member
Hi davidmebeth
Great questions and ones her attorney should be querying the PA attorney general's office about. Would the state of Pennsylvania protect her right to life,liberty and property against agents from the State of NJ? Very interesting.
I did not read about any bail being set or posted. Is the Lady out on bail? If yes, and she does not appear for the hearing, the court will issue a warrant for her immediate arrest and all bail money would be lost. In the event that she would encounter LEO again, then they would have a duty to arrest. The extradition after an arrest would in fact become another issue. Again very interesting.
Ponder this scenario. The lady is released on bail and goes back to PA, She immediately files a "Restraining Order" against the State of NJ and all its actors for fear of violence against her life. The RO motion would need to be ruled upon by a PA court. See how legally interesting this case could become. I am not aware of any case law where a citizen filed a RO against a State. ( My next research project).
My .02
Regards
CCJ
countryclubjoe
Regular Member
I read where the lady is out on bond.
CCJ
CCJ
davidmcbeth
Banned
I just filed an injunction against a state agency ... I don't see why a RO cannot be - especially since she is a woman ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act
Stretching the federal law? Maybe, maybe not.
countryclubjoe
Regular Member
The Mother of two is a hard working law abiding citizen. This is a clear miscarriage of justice. The prosecutor could have used his discretion on this case from jump street however now with the publicity this case is garnishing, he will more then likely stand on his convictions and try to prosecute.
This is a clear example of what Frederic Bastiat stated in his wonderful book " The Law"
" When law and morality are in contradiction to each other,the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law--two evils of equal magnitude,between which it would be difficult to chose."
If anyone knows of or hears of a defense fund for this young Mother, please post it. I would donate gladly.
Regards
CCJ
This is a clear example of what Frederic Bastiat stated in his wonderful book " The Law"
" When law and morality are in contradiction to each other,the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law--two evils of equal magnitude,between which it would be difficult to chose."
If anyone knows of or hears of a defense fund for this young Mother, please post it. I would donate gladly.
Regards
CCJ
davidmcbeth
Banned
I think that she admitted to the crime and that the court's hands are tied .. and in NJ the courts will not rule the law unconstitutional. So why toss $$ down the drain unless the defense fund is an actual defense fund, if you know what I mean.
countryclubjoe
Regular Member
This is another example why folks need to keep their mouths shut during police encounters. Clearly this woman had little to no experience in dealing on the wrong side of the law. Please note that she was the victim of two robbery's hence the weapons for defence.
Her honesty and the draconian NJ gun laws along with mandatory sentencing will probably result in this hard working Mother of two, being put in a cage, losing her children, her house,job and possibly her life. The law is not justified in this incident. The punishment does not fit the crime.
Currently I have not heard or read of any black leaders(Sharpton,Jackson) coming forward in defence of this woman.
If anyone is a poster child for the 2nd Amendment, this Mother of two, surely is. She and her children were the victims of two horrible crimes.
In my opinion incarcerating this woman would serve no ones best interest. She is not a threat to society,The draconian NJ gun laws are a threat to
life,liberty and property of all law abiding citizens. The only victim in this case is the woman,and her family.
My .02
CCJ
davidmcbeth
Banned
Hard to argue with that...