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Thread: High point saves the day

  1. #1
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    High point saves the day

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/07...r-with-45.html

    Pictures at the link


    Many people claim that handguns are useless for protection against bears. Numerous examples have shown that this is a false notion. Handguns may not be ideal as defensive weapons for bears, but they can be effective. In a defensive situation, you have to use what is available. In this case, a homeowner in Alaska used a .45 against a brown bear that was trying to get into his house on July 7th of this year. He and his son were in the home. He had scared off the animal with some warning shots just three hours before. From adn.com:



    “I couldn’t believe that it came back,” he said.

    Landess grabbed his .45 pistol, stepped out onto his upper deck, took aim and fired seven rounds toward the bear’s vitals. He said the bear “got crazy” and ran about 50 feet before it collapsed and died.

    Landess said while he has seen bears around his property, living in close proximity to the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge, he had never experienced one this aggressive. He said he didn’t have any food around his house that could have attracted the bear but did have an empty cooler on his porch that the bear tossed around along with some chairs. He said this was the first big game he’d ever killed.

    “I’m not a hunter; I’m a fisherman,” he said. “It wasn’t something I wanted to do. I wanted to scare him off.”

    A comment by Landess' son on ADN.com gives us some more details: The pistol was a Hi-Point .45, and while seven shots were fired, only one shot hit the bear.

    Yes that was my dad and he shot it with a highpoint 45. Shot at it 7 times but only one shot hit in the directed area. One threw the lung dropped it.
    This appears to be another case of a bear that became too acclimated to humans. It associated humans with food, and so it became a serious risk to human life. Use of firearms as a defensive tool against animals is fairly common in the United States, though it is more common against an aggressive raccoon or a rattlesnake than against bears. No one knows exactly how many times a year guns are used defensively against animals. My personal observation is that in rural areas, defensive uses against animals, whether to defend life or property, are more common than defensive uses against people.



    ©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included. Link to Gun Watch


    Posted by Dean Weingarten at 7/17/2014 11:30:00 PM No comments: Links to this post
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  2. #2
    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    Way to go Hi Point!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HP995 View Post
    Way to go Hi Point!
    Accuracy is job 2? lol

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    ...I don't think anyone wanted to bring that up, as the "marksmanship" displayed in this Man vs. Bear incident is reminiscent of a NYPD or LAPD active duty (or retired) police officer's "marksmanship" (probably the worst in the nation). So, even though it's a valid observation, for sure, it'd be seen as somewhat "insensitive" to point out the guy missed the target 6 times. The target being a big bear.

    So...what I have written above is not really there, as it would be deemed "insensitive." Consequently, please disregard...

    Still, I'm glad it turned out okay...the GOOD news being it only took ONE HIT from a PISTOL to teach Stupid & Aggressive Bully-Bear its lesson, even if the one hit occurred...well, eventually. ;-)

    Bears (and other critters) need to be reminded where they REALLY are on the food chain -- despite Disney movies, PETA and other BS viewpoints to the contrary. Liberals won't do the reminding, so WE have to. And NO, we don't have to "fight fair" vs. animals on "their turf" (more BS: HUMANS own this planet) with our hands and teeth -- how stupid is that -- we use what our BRAINS invented: GUNS. Nothing wrong with that at all. After all, if bears weren't so plain animal-stupid, they could have invented guns also, and USE them also, yes? ;-)

    Only thing missing from this story was whether the "shooter" immediately afterwards got to work setting up the grill and let the coals get going while he gutted & skinned the stupid (but now deceased) bully-bear...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 07-21-2014 at 03:10 PM.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    SNIP...we use what our BRAINS invented: GUNS. Nothing wrong with that at all. After all, if bears weren't so plain animal-stupid, they could have invented guns also, and USE them also, yes? ;-)
    I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty afraid of bears using what they have; I keep hearing a lot about "bear arms" these days.

    Also, sad to hear about the man's accuracy. Talk about luck; ONE pistol round brought down an adult bear?
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 07-21-2014 at 04:17 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty afraid of bears using what they have; I keep hearing a lot about "bear arms" these days.

    Also, sad to hear about the man's accuracy. Talk about luck; ONE pistol round brought down an adult bear?
    I read that article, I must have missed the part where he only hit the bear once. Could you provide that little snippet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I read that article, I must have missed the part where he only hit the bear once. Could you provide that little snippet?
    "A comment by Landess' son on ADN.com gives us some more details: The pistol was a Hi-Point .45, and while seven shots were fired, only one shot hit the bear. "


    About a sixth of the way down.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    "A comment by Landess' son on ADN.com gives us some more details: The pistol was a Hi-Point .45, and while seven shots were fired, only one shot hit the bear. "


    About a sixth of the way down.
    He is really lucky then, I would never count on a 45 acp for bear, and would damn well make sure not to miss.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Rusty,

    One bullet eventually brought down the bear...I don't think it died immediately on the scene but left after being hit. Once. ;-)

    Remember all, a lot of loud & scary noise -- gunshots -- don't hurt anyone...only hits do.

    Perhaps a Hi Point carbine would have helped accuracy-wise (a 9mm/45ACP Marlin Camp Gun would be good also, if you're going to use handgun calibers):

    http://hi-pointfirearms.com/Hi-Point...r_carbine.html

    ...one reason the M1 30-cal. carbine was adopted (1942): To make it more likely to get hits on a target rather than soldiers trying to do so using a 1911 45ACP -- one handed. And remember back in those days (even in mine, in the US Army of the 1960s-Vietnam War era), ONLY one-handed shooting of pistols was taught in the military-- the Weaver and such were in the distant future. I barely qualified with my 1911 on the range, but no problem: In the RVN, targets were a whole lot closer...

    Still, one-handed shooting did just fine for most of the world for what, 100 years or so?

    Still does for some.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 07-21-2014 at 06:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    He is really lucky then, I would never count on a 45 acp for bear, and would damn well make sure not to miss.
    That's what I though to myself. .45 ACP for the two-legged predator, but not my first choice against a bear.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    Rusty,

    One bullet eventually brought down the bear...I don't think it died immediately on the scene but left after being hit. Once. ;-)

    Remember all, a lot of loud & scary noise -- gunshots -- don't hurt anyone...only hits do.
    SNIP...
    Still, one-handed shooting did just fine for most of the world for what, 100 years or so?

    Still does for some.
    Correct about the bear dying some time afterwards. I imagine an aggressive bear would have ended the man's life as its own life ended. Tragic and dramatic.

    Maybe Hi Point can use this event to market their pistols. At any rate, the fixed-to-frame barrel design lends itself to inherent accuracy. Not meaning to criticize the man, as I'd be pretty shocked to have a huge, wild bear in front of me as well.

    As to the accuracy issue, it is sad that the shooting sports are considered fringe in this day and age; were rifle and pistol marksmanship classes still offered to children, maybe more bullets would find their mark and accidents reduced.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Sadly, "marksmanship" (much like "penmanship" that used to be taught with Sheaffer fountain pens in Catholic, if not other schools decades ago) is obsolete.

    Even in the military (Marines included sadly), regardless of what they SAY they teach, it either doesn't stick or, isn't demanded anymore. It's simply "Spray & Pray" when facing incoming enemy small arms fire. The traditional "Overwhelming American Firepower" is applied immediately -- even if no one sees any targets to shoot at/hit. That's what the "policy" was in the RVN, and who knows how much earlier. "Throw enough lead at it and you'll probably hit it" is the thinking. Reminds me of how during the Iraq/Iran War, lots of guys with AKs threw up a "wall of lead" for low-flying jets to pass through...enough lead in the air makes flying extremely hazardous -- no "marksmanship" required.

    Besides being a waste of ammunition, IMO it's also just plain unprofessional for a supposedly professional army...and I mean ANY country's army, not just ours. ;-)

    But the good news about bears is that they're big, so easier to hit. Further, as they get closer, they're even bigger (the scary part of that aside).

    That's okay: Stand fast, mark your target and don't fire at them until you can clearly count their big white (or yellow, if you've time to note the color) teeth. Then empty the gun into its stupid head. You'll either be dead or the bear will be. It'll be over in seconds.

    In either case, your gun being empty won't matter whatsoever.

    ...unless then you discover that there is more than ONE bear (oops), but I digress...

    ;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 07-24-2014 at 02:23 AM.

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    When they really want a target destroyed, they call the air force anyway....don't worry, we go this one....

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    Having killed hundreds of big game animals including a few bears and been around the killing of hundreds of more.

    Having also investigated the shootings of some humans

    It is very common for them to go or move some ways even after taking hits from some very potent calibers even with their vitals totally destroyed.

    A lot of strange things can happen when trying to kill something misses happen bullets do not always preform as advertised.

    Bullets some times hit things on the way to the target and don't arrive where they are suppose to.

    The critter you just shot doesn't realized it is dead even through you have totally destroyed its vital organs.


    A hunter I know has this to say.

    The easiest way to lose a trophy is to have some one say don't shoot again you hit him hard the first time.

    A prime example of this was a bout 4 years ago I was on a elk/deer hunt due to a property dispute one didn't want any animal you shot to cross the fence between the ranches.

    As I was hunting along a nice mule deer buck jump up about 75 yards from the line heading for the line my first shot sent him head over heels. The next 3 shots kept knocking him down he died about 50 feet on my side of line.

    My fellow hunters gave me a hard time about shooting that buck 4 times with my 338wm and 250gr bullets.

    The one giving me the hardest time bragged about his one shot one kill record.

    Well the next day I heard him shoot when we arrived back at camp. He had a very forlorn look on his face.

    His story was he took his so called well place one shot on a nice buck watched it stand there then walk away and could have shot it one or more times before it got out of sight.

    Well he knew it was dead one shot one kill. Well after tracking it and following the blood trail for a couple of hours it crossed over the property line and was lost.

    His statement was from now on I well keep shooting.

    My advise if you are hunting, defending oneself and the target is still moving, is to keep shooting and take your best shots as long as it is safe to do so.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 07-22-2014 at 08:08 AM.
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    Missing 6 of 7 shots may have been more of the adrenaline dump than his ability but dang, he is lucky.

    Those Hi-Points may be ugly, but they are very reliable and will shoot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    Missing 6 of 7 shots may have been more of the adrenaline dump than his ability but dang, he is lucky.

    Those Hi-Points may be ugly, but they are very reliable and will shoot.
    I think your right now thinking about it ... "shoot everything!"

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