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Veterans, mental health and guns

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
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1,049
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Doug
Since we have our very own headcase here at OCDO and we all have to deal with his sock puppets and bipolar behavior, I feel the need to ask a question. Do veterans need a better inpatient mental health system? It would seem to me that some are very far gone from reality and their childish outbursts and obsessive harassment indicate a self destructive pattern that will likely end up in their eventual death. Cyber stalking often turns I to real stalking and in a state (take Wisconsin for example) 1/3 of adults are armed or gun owners. I would hate to see any mentally ill man locked up and thus deprived of his rights based on a possible premature assumption that they are a danger to themselves, so at what point do you guys think forced intervention should be taken?
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
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earth's crust
Vets should have their mental issues treated like everyone else ... VA hospitals need no long exist.

Then they'll get any help they need like everybody else-quicker and better than the VA.

Only people wishing to die go to the VA if they can help it.
 

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,049
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Doug
Vets should have their mental issues treated like everyone else ... VA hospitals need no long exist.



Then they'll get any help they need like everybody else-quicker and better than the VA.



Only people wishing to die go to the VA if they can help it.

Or people looking for a $525 federal citation for doing the slurp and slide at the pop tabs lol
 

Franky

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Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
271
Location
popple butte
Vets should have their mental issues treated like everyone else ... VA hospitals need no long exist.

Then they'll get any help they need like everybody else-quicker and better than the VA.

Only people wishing to die go to the VA if they can help it.

Your post is pure BS. Not all of the VAMCs are subpar, one in particular is the Minneapolis VAMC. It is a very good facility including the Spinal cord injury and disorder portion which is top notch. Been there many times as an outpatient and inpatient in SCID.
 

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,049
Location
Doug
Your post is pure BS. Not all of the VAMCs are subpar, one in particular is the Minneapolis VAMC. It is a very good facility including the Spinal cord injury and disorder portion which is top notch. Been there many times as an outpatient and inpatient in SCID.


D.I.D. doesn't come from your spine sillypants
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Since we have our very own headcase here at OCDO and we all have to deal with his sock puppets and bipolar behavior, I feel the need to ask a question. Do veterans need a better inpatient mental health system? It would seem to me that some are very far gone from reality and their childish outbursts and obsessive harassment indicate a self destructive pattern that will likely end up in their eventual death. Cyber stalking often turns I to real stalking and in a state (take Wisconsin for example) 1/3 of adults are armed or gun owners. I would hate to see any mentally ill man locked up and thus deprived of his rights based on a possible premature assumption that they are a danger to themselves, so at what point do you guys think forced intervention should be taken?

Kind of threw a few kitchen sinks in there, didn't you?

I have a raft of candidates for "our own headcase here at OCDO ... [with] sock puppets [and] bipolar behavior. There's no need to narrow it down, as it is not really that important to decide who it might be.

As for your first question - IMHO yes, veterans need a better inpatient MH system - just like non-vets do. Even the full private pay systems need improving.

Thank you for parroting all the BS about needing to lock people up in case they are thinking about doing something. With friends like you .....

At what point should forced intervention be taken? Not until the law says so. Not one second earlier. I also think there should be more frequent reviews of the person's status for continued involuntary commitment and a better methodology for appealijng the medical and legal findings behind the decision for involuntary commitment.

I also think the folks who run the lottery should just give all thje money to me without making me have to first guess all the right numbers and then go buy a ticket. The chances of that happening are about as good as seeing some really meaningful (as opposed to cosmetic and responding to unfounded paranoid PSH) changes in the VA, te public, or the private MH treatment systems.

stay safe.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
D. I. D. is Dissociative Identity Disorder. There was announced today a great advance in understanding the genetics of schizophrenia.

So, about court ordered intervention, when a court orders medication or "no weapons," is the termination of the requirement necessarily entered into the record as the requirement was?

i'm sorry, how did this dissociative disorder coupled with genetic discoveries of schizophrenia fit together with veterans who normally are not diagnosed with either of these disorders.

ipse
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Being crazy is not against the law...yet. Acts could violate the law and then being crazy could mitigate hard time in the Big House. Because shrinks are given almost god like powers based on their schooling by the state any allegation could get your gun rights terminated, you being involuntarily confined, loss of employment, social and familial negative outcomes.

If you violate the law have your attorney claim that you were/are crazy, until then being thought of as a loon harms no one.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Since we have our very own headcase here at OCDO and we all have to deal with his sock puppets and bipolar behavior, I feel the need to ask a question. Do veterans need a better inpatient mental health system? ..................................so at what point do you guys think forced intervention should be taken?

First....I am not fond of being called a "headcase" by anyone, but sticks and stones.

I see a VA MH provider due to a TBI gifted to me during my Military service. One of the mandatory questions at each session is "have you considered suicide since our last meeting?" I always answer "no", and continue with, "Why do you think I would tell you anyway?" She knows that I am always armed (except while I am in the VA) and consistently verifies my sanity. A doctor with fewer ethics would have the ability to take my weapons from me with just a sentence. Too, too much power in one persons hands.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Non-veteran OPie's broadbrush accusation and "D.I.D. doesn't come from your spine" retort. Schizophrenia and DID are co-morbidities.

http://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2000/032-02-0071.pdf

hate when you completely misinterpret a journal of insurance medicine, no less, probably not even peer reviewed. nor where in the article did the authors indicate the two disorders are comorbid conditions.
quote: controversy exists concerning the differential diagnosis, which may include many other mental disorders such as bipolar disorder with rapid cycling, anxiety disorders, somatizationion disorders, personality disorders, and psychotic disorders. unquote

yes psychotic disorders is the overarching criteria for schizophrenia but one of many...

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
why limit this discussion to only veteran's requiring better mental health care and realign ourselves instead to flat out stating, once and for all, the mental health system in the US is and has been broken since Johnson's great society was rolled out.

the stigmatization of those in our nation w/mental health issues and who seek treatment is appalling and it is even worse in the military realm...

Wimwag, your ignorance & insensitive comment assists in fostering & perpetuating that stigmatization and i am afraid truth be known, in the future, even you might require psychotherapy for some DSM 5 disorder. hopefully if you do seek professional assistance when you need it, be after a death within your familial circle, job loss, illness, etc., your network of friends as well as your mental health professional won't exhibit the same frivolous and insensitive rhetoric BS.

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Its amazing how many licensed psychiatrists are members if OCDO

i am sure wimwag it is due to the moderator(s) positive consideration to assure you and others of your ilk remain coherent and on any psychotropic meds that have been locally prescribed. :eek:

interestingly you did not respond to my statement.

ipse
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
D. I. D. is Dissociative Identity Disorder. There was announced today a great advance in understanding the genetics of schizophrenia.

So, about court ordered intervention, when a court orders medication or "no weapons," is the termination of the requirement necessarily entered into the record as the requirement was?

I notice that nobody has yet responded to your very appropriate question.

In general, the answer is "Yes". In general, unless the court sets a certain (meaning specific) epiration date to its order, it takes a subsequent order by that court or a higher one to terminate the original order. Ex parte emergency restraining orders are probably the best example of orders that are time-limited - usually because the legislation authorizing them has set that time limitation.

And to take your question a step further - even if a court releases someone from involuntary commitment (which in many jurisdictions now includes involuntary outpatient and sometimes "voluntary to avoid involuntary") there will remain a restriction on keeping and bearing arms.

stay safe.
 
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