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Thread: Carrying a sword?

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    Regular Member Not A Victim's Avatar
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    Carrying a sword?

    I know swords are not protected in the Iowa firearms preemption so local authorities can write up ordinances to ban them within city limits. I read through all the city ordinances for Le mars and I can't find anything that says carrying a blade that exceeds a certain length is illegal. I'm not sure about the state laws though. What exactly does the state law say about carrying a blade greater than 5in with a valid weapons carry permit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Victim View Post
    I know swords are not protected in the Iowa firearms preemption so local authorities can write up ordinances to ban them within city limits. I read through all the city ordinances for Le mars and I can't find anything that says carrying a blade that exceeds a certain length is illegal. I'm not sure about the state laws though. What exactly does the state law say about carrying a blade greater than 5in with a valid weapons carry permit?
    But, is it concealed?
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    Regular Member Not A Victim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    But, is it concealed?
    As long as I have a valid weapons carry permit I can carry open or concealed. What I'm trying ask is does Iowa law restrict the carry of a blade that exceeds a certain length?

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    I carry and use a 28" blade on a six foot snath.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Not A Victim's Avatar
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    I just got of the phone with the Le Mars sheriffs department and they said that any blade that exceeds the length of 5in is classified as a "dangerous weapon" in Iowa. As long as you have a Weapons carry permit you can carry a sword on your person or in your vehicle. You can also carry a sword in side city limits unless there is an ordinance that says otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Victim View Post
    I just got of the phone with the Le Mars sheriffs department and they said that any blade that exceeds the length of 5in is classified as a "dangerous weapon" in Iowa. As long as you have a Weapons carry permit you can carry a sword on your person or in your vehicle. You can also carry a sword in side city limits unless there is an ordinance that says otherwise.
    LEO advice is w/o value, unless they provide you with a cite. Apparently they did not do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Victim View Post
    As long as I have a valid weapons carry permit I can carry open or concealed. What I'm trying ask is does Iowa law restrict the carry of a blade that exceeds a certain length?
    I failed to specify my sarcasm on a post I thought was very obviously sarcastic... my bad!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Victim View Post
    ... What exactly does the state law say about carrying a blade greater than 5in with a valid weapons carry permit?
    702.7 DANGEROUS WEAPON.
    A "dangerous weapon" is any instrument or device designed primarily for use in inflicting death or injury upon a human being or animal, and which is capable of inflicting death upon a human being when used in the manner for which it was designed, except a bow and arrow when possessed and used for hunting or any other lawful purpose. Additionally, any instrument or device of any sort whatsoever which is actually used in such a manner as to indicate that the defendant intends to inflict death or serious injury upon the other, and which, when so used, is capable of inflicting death upon a human being, is a dangerous weapon. Dangerous weapons include but are not limited to any offensive weapon, pistol, revolver, or other firearm, dagger, razor, stiletto, switchblade knife, knife having a blade exceeding five inches in length, or any portable device or weapon directing an electric current, impulse, wave, or beam that produces a high-voltage pulse designed to immobilize a person.
    724.4 Carrying Weapons

    Per Wikipedia: "Iowa is a "shall issue" state. An Iowa carry permit is technically a "Permit To Carry Weapons", and is not limited to firearms. It allows people in Iowa to open or conceal carry any kind of weapon, so long as that weapon is not otherwise illegal to own in Iowa. However, based on the current wording of the statue, state preemption only applies to firearms. As such, residents are advised to be aware of local ordinances that might restrict the possession of knives, swords, or other types of weapons that are not firearms."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-18-2014 at 10:38 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    702.7 DANGEROUS WEAPON.

    724.4 Carrying Weapons

    Per Wikipedia: "Iowa is a "shall issue" state. An Iowa carry permit is technically a "Permit To Carry Weapons", and is not limited to firearms. It allows people in Iowa to open or conceal carry any kind of weapon, so long as that weapon is not otherwise illegal to own in Iowa. However, based on the current wording of the statue, state preemption only applies to firearms. As such, residents are advised to be aware of local ordinances that might restrict the possession of knives, swords, or other types of weapons that are not firearms."
    shudder, you spent time looking it up on wikipedia why not look up the specific statute and respond accordingly to the OP's query:
    724.4 Carrying weapons.
    3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a crime:
    a. If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    b. If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.
    http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-I...IowaCode&ga=83

    bottom line do not carry your 4 four foot broadsword about the neighbourhood while walking the pooch.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-18-2014 at 11:09 PM.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Not A Victim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    shudder, you spent time looking it up on wikipedia why not look up the specific statute and respond accordingly to the OP's query:
    724.4 Carrying weapons.
    3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a crime:
    a. If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    b. If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.
    http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-I...IowaCode&ga=83

    bottom line do not carry your 4 four foot broadsword about the neighbourhood while walking the pooch.

    ipse
    724.4 CARRYING WEAPONS.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who
    goes armed with a dangerous weapon concealed on or about the person,
    or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed with a pistol or
    revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or
    not, or who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or
    revolver, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    2. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the
    person, if the person uses the knife in the commission of a crime,
    commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the
    person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a
    crime:
    a. If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length,
    commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    b. If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not
    exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.
    4. Subsections 1 through 3 do not apply to any of the following:
    a. A person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon in the
    person's own dwelling or place of business, or on land owned or
    possessed by the person.
    b. A peace officer, when the officer's duties require the
    person to carry such weapons.
    c. A member of the armed forces of the United States or of
    the national guard or person in the service of the United States,
    when the weapons are carried in connection with the person's duties
    as such.
    d. A correctional officer, when the officer's duties require,
    serving under the authority of the Iowa department of corrections.
    e. A person who for any lawful purpose carries an unloaded
    pistol, revolver, or other dangerous weapon inside a closed and
    fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to
    be concealed on the person.
    f. A person who for any lawful purpose carries or transports
    an unloaded pistol or revolver in a vehicle inside a closed and
    fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to
    be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment
    where the pistol or revolver will not be readily accessible to any
    person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
    g. A person while the person is lawfully engaged in target
    practice on a range designed for that purpose or while actually
    engaged in lawful hunting.
    h. A person who carries a knife used in hunting or fishing,
    while actually engaged in lawful hunting or fishing.
    i. A person who has in the person's possession and who
    displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons
    which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the
    limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a
    violation of this section if the person produces at the person's
    trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the
    alleged offense and which would have brought the person's conduct
    within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of
    the alleged offense.

    j. A law enforcement officer from another state when the
    officer's duties require the officer to carry the weapon and the
    officer is in this state for any of the following reasons:
    (1) The extradition or other lawful removal of a prisoner from
    this state.
    (2) Pursuit of a suspect in compliance with chapter 806.
    (3) Activities in the capacity of a law enforcement officer with
    the knowledge and consent of the chief of police of the city or the
    sheriff of the county in which the activities occur or of the
    commissioner of public safety.
    k. A person engaged in the business of transporting prisoners
    under a contract with the Iowa department of corrections or a county
    sheriff, a similar agency from another state, or the federal
    government.

    As long as you have a valid weapons carry permit you can carry a blade of any length inside city limits unless there is an ordinance that says otherwise.
    Last edited by Not A Victim; 07-19-2014 at 12:45 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    My apologies, Solus, I provided a link to where the information could be found but did not post the entire section due to it's length...... Hey wait, why am I apologizing for something you did yourself? Never mind, I at least provided a link where the entire code could be found.

    Perhaps you should have kept reading after finding sub-section 3, maybe?

    dixit
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-19-2014 at 09:30 AM.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus
    724.4 Carrying weapons.
    3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a crime:
    a. If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    b. If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.
    http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-I...IowaCode&ga=83

    bottom line do not carry your 4 four foot broadsword about the neighbourhood while walking the pooch.
    How do you propose to conceal "4 four foot broadsword[s]" on or about your person?
    (And then, yeah, you have to consider the part about having a permit to carry weapons... which is what the OP was asking about.)

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    MKEgal, et al., seems the op found the answer himself...kudos

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    I hate to break it to you, but the way Iowa has its weapons law written, open or concealed carry of any weapon of any kind inside city limits anywhere in the state is illegal. You are committing an aggravated misdemeanor at all times while carrying a weapon, regardless if you have a permit or not. LEOs can literally do anything they want to you until you prove to them that you have a permit, which is an affirmative defense. It means that while you are still legally breaking the law, they cannot charge you with a crime. Carrying weapons in Iowa is kinda at your own risk. Its literally guilty until proven innocent. Its blatantly unconstitutional, but has not been challenged in court as of yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Estell View Post
    I hate to break it to you, but the way Iowa has its weapons law written, open or concealed carry of any weapon of any kind inside city limits anywhere in the state is illegal. You are committing an aggravated misdemeanor at all times while carrying a weapon, regardless if you have a permit or not. LEOs can literally do anything they want to you until you prove to them that you have a permit, which is an affirmative defense. It means that while you are still legally breaking the law, they cannot charge you with a crime. Carrying weapons in Iowa is kinda at your own risk. Its literally guilty until proven innocent. Its blatantly unconstitutional, but has not been challenged in court as of yet.
    Seeing as how you are in a position to be more likely to have the courts hear your arguments, are you suggesting you are going to be one to challenge the constitutionality of the weapons law the state tried to throw you under the bus with?

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    Im still looking into my options right now but they are rather limited, as I won my case in court. IF I get arrested again simply for carrying weapons, as I will abide by the judges ruling and refuse to produce a permit while open carrying, then the carrying weapons law will be destroyed in court. I am iffy if I want to do this, as I missed time from work, not to mention im still fighting to get my firearm back, almost a year after my arrest and months since court. DMPD is sandbagging me, they don't want me to get my firearm back. I filed a complaint and have talked to a lieutenant, so hopefully something will happen soon. I am just looking forward to the massive amount of LEO harassment coming my way when I open carry again.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    As IC 724 has shown in this post, a person can carry any weapon (aside from Level 3 FFL required weapons, unless of course you have that too...) as long as they have a permit. God I hate that word...


    Dennis:
    I forget the complete outcome of your case. Dismissed or not guilty?
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    The carrying weapons charge was dropped, as I had a legal firearm. Still have court fees to pay on that one. The failure to produce weapons permit was ruled not guilty, as I was found not to be in violation of 724.5 of the Iowa code in refusing to produce a permit upon demand while open carrying. This ruling opened up a whole can of worms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Estell View Post
    The carrying weapons charge was dropped, as I had a legal firearm. Still have court fees to pay on that one. The failure to produce weapons permit was ruled not guilty, as I was found not to be in violation of 724.5 of the Iowa code in refusing to produce a permit upon demand while open carrying. This ruling opened up a whole can of worms.
    Not trying to be too nit picky, but what exactly does the paperwork you were given say? The online court records system seems to be in disagreement with what you said in what I just quoted(and itself because it says it was dismissed AND that you were found not guilty).

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    Im not sure on exactly how my lawyer worked that out, but I know that the weapons charge didn't even go to trial, as my lawyer and the state attorney agreed to drop it the day of trial. The only charge that went to trial was the permit charge, and that one I was found not guilty of by the judge. In the paperwork I was given, the judge stated that he thought it shouldn't matter if the weapon is concealed or not, but stated that since the statute only specifies concealed, I could not be found guilty. My only stipulation coming from this is the fact that the carrying weapons law is unconstitutional because it makes carrying weapons illegal, unless a permit is provided on demand to a peace officer. So if I go with the judges ruling, and refuse, will I still be charged with carrying weapons? If so, then finally something can be done about that statute in court. Instead of making carrying weapons illegal, it should state the opposite and make carrying weapons legal with a permit. As the law states, even with a permit carrying weapons is illegal. The permit is just a get out of jail free card. If the statute is changed, it would put Iowa more in line with most other states, in which carrying a firearm is not cause for a detainment and search. There is a court ruling(I cant recall which one specifically) that states that a firearm, where legally carried, is not cause for a stop. Too bad in Iowa its a crime.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Can you post links and/or copies of the record/brief for us to see?
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Estell View Post
    I'm not sure on exactly how my lawyer worked that out, but I know that the weapons charge didn't even go to trial, as my lawyer and the state attorney agreed to drop it the day of trial. The only charge that went to trial was the permit charge, and that one I was found not guilty of by the judge.
    You had two charges against you; the first was nolle prosequied and the second you already know

    There is a court ruling(I cant recall which one specifically) that states that a firearm, where legally carried, is not cause for a stop. Too bad in Iowa its a crime.
    Most of it probably comes from the decision of US v. DeBerry, though that's not the only instance.

    The only fact that saves the officer's stop of DeBerry, in my opinion, is the fact that it is unlawful in Illinois to carry a concealed weapon.   The tipster informed the police that DeBerry was armed, and it appears from the facts before us that the weapon was not in plain view.   I do not agree that this case would necessarily come out the same way if Illinois law, like the law of many states, authorized the carrying of concealed weapons.   At that point, the entire content of the anonymous tip would be a physical description of the individual, his location, and an allegation that he was carrying something lawful (a cellular telephone? a beeper? a firearm?).   This kind of non-incriminatory allegation, in my view, would not be enough to justify the kind of investigatory stop that took place here.   It would mean, in states that permit carrying concealed weapons, that the police no longer need any reason to stop citizens on the street to search them.   However, we do not have that situation.   Because I therefore consider the Court's comments on lawful concealed weapons to be dicta, I concur in the result reached today.
    POSNER, Chief Judge.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    why the *&$% were you carrying a sword????

  24. #24
    Regular Member Not A Victim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    why the *&$% were you carrying a sword????
    Why the *&$% can't you read? I never said I was carrying a sword. I was simply asking what the legality of carrying a sword in Iowa was. As of right now the only weapon I carry is a HK USP on my hip.
    Last edited by Not A Victim; 07-22-2014 at 01:08 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Victim View Post
    Why the *&$% can't you read? I never said I was carrying a sword. I was simply asking what the legality of carrying a sword in Iowa was. As of right now the only weapon I carry is a HK USP on my hip.
    whatever.... why would you even ask? Let me rephrase......"why the *&$# would you be interested in/ask questions about carrying a sword?"

    Carrying a pistol..... cool. Carrying a sword.... creepy.


    oh and thank you for identifying your pistol make and model...... now i can rest.
    Last edited by Kopis; 07-23-2014 at 12:07 PM.

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