Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Louisville Waterfront Park Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    388

    Louisville Waterfront Park Carry

    Can firearms be prohibited during events at parks? I ask because Forecastle music show is prohibiting weapons but on the same Waterfront Park Thunder Over Louisville was found to not be able to prohibit CC or OC.

    http://www.wlky.com/entertainment/fo...leave/26962302

    Couldn't find anything on Forecastle's site

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Gravel Switch, KY
    Posts
    544
    I was wondering about that myself when I saw the blurb on the news the other day.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    KRS 65.870 prohibits local governments and their agencies from regulating guns. In the question you asked, Louisville Metro has no part in the regulation. The regulation is being done by a private enterprise that has (or claims to have) exclusive control over public property for that period of time. I don't like it, but that is the state of the law today. It might be informative to get the lease or what ever type of agreement exists between Louisville Metro and Forecastle. That would be a public record and subject to the open records act. The question is not if the property is public, but who is doing the regulation and do they have exclusive use of the property and by what authority they have that exclusive use. This is the reason that the Iroquois Amphitheater has signs posted and has put on their website that during events sponsored by Metro Parks, CC is prohibited (they consider the Amphitheater a county owned "building" and can't prohibit OC), but during events sponsored by outside enterprises, all weapons are prohibited. Thunder Over Louisville was an event put on by Louisville Metro, so guns couldn't be excluded (except CC in park buildings). I intend to get a look at one of these leases some day. I suspect that Louisville Metro requires them to prohibit guns, but have no proof that this is the case. It could be that Lou. Metro just suggests it verbally or pretends it has to be done for "insurance purposes" and the leasee understands that they better do it or they won't get the property again or the price might go up. They probably aren't foolish enough to put it in writing. This issue is not cut and dry and you will not get any extra help in a courtroom. We can each give our opinions of how it ought to be, but the only opinion that counts belongs to the judge.
    Even if the regulation on CC is via the private business, I have often wondered what the problem is. I recently re-read all the CC laws I could find and came to the conclusion as this: private entities (i.e businesses, colleges, etc) and local govt's can regulate concealed carry, but no criminal penalty shall be applicable to any such statute or ordinance. So if CC in a place that isn't prohibited by state law (i.e detention facilities) isn't technically a crime, that means you can't be searched for as the sole basis of reasonable articulated suspicion of a crime. Example: I would be CC'ing at an event/building where CC is prohibited, say Forecastle, Iroquois Ampitheater, or even to college. IF I was somehow suspected of CC'ing (i.e printed) security would have no authority to pat me down but could ask me to leave period. CC in a posted area, even with an ordinance or rule, isn't considered a crime, so they can't search me without consent. Is my logic off here?

    I assume that most postings are for insurance purposes and the rest is for "safety". What I wonder, and this is completely off-topic, is do I get brownie points in a law suite regarding me being hurt during a violent crime taking place in a "gun free zone"?


    Oh and btw gutshot: been open carrying wherever I can, it's been an experience. Nothing bad. Most people don't even notice

    This is the records request I just put in with Louisville Metro. Please let me know if I missed anything
    "I would like to know the policy of Metro Parks, all but specifically Waterfront Park, Iroquois Park, Cherokee Park, and Tom Sawyer Park, regarding weapons carry, both concealed carry and open carry. I would like to know if, when, and where they are prohibited. I would also like to know if this policy changes during private events, either allowing or prohibiting carry if either is not normally permitted upon the request of the organization that is leasing park lands and facilities. Thank you. "
    Last edited by poetdante; 07-21-2014 at 06:43 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    388
    It seems that I have much to learn

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by poetdante View Post
    It seems that I have much to learn
    Don't give another thought to it. We all started somewhere.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    388
    Well, I heard back from Office of Management and Budget. They confirmed what I asked: that there are no policies in any Louisville Metro park or Waterfront park regarding weapons carry. They do say that "the producer or event hots of a special event that is permitted or ticketed has the ability to prohibit weapons at their organized event" and provided me a link to lease terms for metro parks and Waterfront park (because when they called me to clarify I wanted documentation as to what part of the leasing agreement gave an organizer the right to prohibit weapons carry; let them be treated as a private business on public land). Not good, not bad. At least I got something in writing and combined with State law all an event (barring it being a school-sponsored event) could not make carrying there a legal penalty. And since CC in a place explicitly stated in a KRS is not a crime, the only way you can be asked to leave while CC'ing is by telling people you have a weapon. That's somewhat fair, but I still prefer to OC.

    Thanks for your support, Gutshot!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    388
    http://www.louisvilleky.gov/MetroParks/rentals

    and

    http://louisvillewaterfront.com/docu..._Agreement.pdf

    I just read the 2 ordinances you posted, gutshot. I wasn't aware of those two and it will make me more careful where I CC if I go into metro offices. Or should I? I mean short of metal detectors they wouldn't know and it wouldn't be a crime if I did (local ordinances can't put a penalty to CCin' in prohibited places)

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I just uncover and go in OC, but you are right in what you said. I just try to obey the laws as much as possible.
    Could you be charged if you went in CC mode, later went into OC mode, then refused to leave when asked?

    Short of having metal detectors (which the Ohio State Fair has, btw) I would think you wouldn't be detected CCing.
    Last edited by BB62; 07-29-2014 at 10:14 PM. Reason: changed from "would be detected CCing"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •