• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Louisville Waterfront Park Carry

poetdante

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY

KRS 65.870 prohibits local governments and their agencies from regulating guns. In the question you asked, Louisville Metro has no part in the regulation. The regulation is being done by a private enterprise that has (or claims to have) exclusive control over public property for that period of time. I don't like it, but that is the state of the law today. It might be informative to get the lease or what ever type of agreement exists between Louisville Metro and Forecastle. That would be a public record and subject to the open records act. The question is not if the property is public, but who is doing the regulation and do they have exclusive use of the property and by what authority they have that exclusive use. This is the reason that the Iroquois Amphitheater has signs posted and has put on their website that during events sponsored by Metro Parks, CC is prohibited (they consider the Amphitheater a county owned "building" and can't prohibit OC), but during events sponsored by outside enterprises, all weapons are prohibited. Thunder Over Louisville was an event put on by Louisville Metro, so guns couldn't be excluded (except CC in park buildings). I intend to get a look at one of these leases some day. I suspect that Louisville Metro requires them to prohibit guns, but have no proof that this is the case. It could be that Lou. Metro just suggests it verbally or pretends it has to be done for "insurance purposes" and the leasee understands that they better do it or they won't get the property again or the price might go up. They probably aren't foolish enough to put it in writing. This issue is not cut and dry and you will not get any extra help in a courtroom. We can each give our opinions of how it ought to be, but the only opinion that counts belongs to the judge.

Even if the regulation on CC is via the private business, I have often wondered what the problem is. I recently re-read all the CC laws I could find and came to the conclusion as this: private entities (i.e businesses, colleges, etc) and local govt's can regulate concealed carry, but no criminal penalty shall be applicable to any such statute or ordinance. So if CC in a place that isn't prohibited by state law (i.e detention facilities) isn't technically a crime, that means you can't be searched for as the sole basis of reasonable articulated suspicion of a crime. Example: I would be CC'ing at an event/building where CC is prohibited, say Forecastle, Iroquois Ampitheater, or even to college. IF I was somehow suspected of CC'ing (i.e printed) security would have no authority to pat me down but could ask me to leave period. CC in a posted area, even with an ordinance or rule, isn't considered a crime, so they can't search me without consent. Is my logic off here?

I assume that most postings are for insurance purposes and the rest is for "safety". What I wonder, and this is completely off-topic, is do I get brownie points in a law suite regarding me being hurt during a violent crime taking place in a "gun free zone"?


Oh and btw gutshot: been open carrying wherever I can, it's been an experience. Nothing bad. Most people don't even notice

This is the records request I just put in with Louisville Metro. Please let me know if I missed anything
"I would like to know the policy of Metro Parks, all but specifically Waterfront Park, Iroquois Park, Cherokee Park, and Tom Sawyer Park, regarding weapons carry, both concealed carry and open carry. I would like to know if, when, and where they are prohibited. I would also like to know if this policy changes during private events, either allowing or prohibiting carry if either is not normally permitted upon the request of the organization that is leasing park lands and facilities. Thank you. "
 
Last edited:

poetdante

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
Well, I heard back from Office of Management and Budget. They confirmed what I asked: that there are no policies in any Louisville Metro park or Waterfront park regarding weapons carry. They do say that "the producer or event hots of a special event that is permitted or ticketed has the ability to prohibit weapons at their organized event" and provided me a link to lease terms for metro parks and Waterfront park (because when they called me to clarify I wanted documentation as to what part of the leasing agreement gave an organizer the right to prohibit weapons carry; let them be treated as a private business on public land). Not good, not bad. At least I got something in writing and combined with State law all an event (barring it being a school-sponsored event) could not make carrying there a legal penalty. And since CC in a place explicitly stated in a KRS is not a crime, the only way you can be asked to leave while CC'ing is by telling people you have a weapon. That's somewhat fair, but I still prefer to OC.

Thanks for your support, Gutshot!
 

poetdante

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I just uncover and go in OC, but you are right in what you said. I just try to obey the laws as much as possible.
Could you be charged if you went in CC mode, later went into OC mode, then refused to leave when asked?

Short of having metal detectors (which the Ohio State Fair has, btw) I would think you wouldn't be detected CCing.
 
Last edited:
Top