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  1. #1
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    Odd behavior

    My wife and I decided to go for a short walk down to a local gas station for a midnight snack. We had a pleasant walk to the station using a path we often take and we do live in a nice area of town. On our way back I was enjoying ice cream while my wife was eating nachos.

    As we were headed home I watch 2 guys in a maroon minivan slow to a crawl and eye my wife like a pit bull eyes a raw steak. I was watching them pretty intently while my wife's head was stuck down in her nachos not paying attention to anything in the world(yes this is a source of irritation). Also at this time there was a walking gap between us because my wife was walking so slow while eating her nachos. Well after they got an eye full they drove off at normal speeds and I lost sight of them as they rounded a small corner.

    Our path that we use to get home takes us up a large hill that is a one way street, it has poor lighting and is not used a lot. Pretty much the reason we take this path is for a bit of peace and quiet. As we start up this one way the same van that passed earlier is headed down the one way, I did not know it was this van until they drove by us. At this point I am becoming very suspicious. I am was thinking what a bunch of creepers driving by twice to ogle the same woman minding her own business, it gets better. As they reach the end of the street they put their van into reverse, there are no houses, turns, or driving paths on this one way. So zero reasons why a person would need to reverse on this street.

    Now I am starting to get nervous, and my glock 20(yes 10mm of power) is weighing heavy on my belt, but it was a good heavy. I stepped off the side of the road kinda wondering what I need to do next, I could not see past their reverse lights very well at all. These two were so focused on my wife that I do not believe they saw me on their second trip, I also am assuming they did not believe my wife and I were walking together. As I said earlier there was a walking gap between us because she was walking so slow while eating her nachos.

    Once the guys in the van spot me they stop and ask "Are you two together?", and yes he sounded like a fool asking it. My wife responds with a "yes", and we get followed up with and "Oh, you two are such and odd couple." Commenting on our height difference, they then put the van back into drive and we did not see them again.

    I feel like I should have drawn my gun and kept it hidden behind my back(it never broke kydex), or at least had my hand on the grip. I am certain that my wife was targeted to be a victim of a crime. In the end nobody got hurt, so I guess all is well that ends well.

    Thanks for taking the time to read, sorry for any grammar or spelling errors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    --deleted by Moderator--.
    Save your sarcasm and condescension for your friends.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-21-2014 at 11:53 PM.

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    The fact that you recognized the possible danger is a big step to being prepared.

    Far to many victims say I couldn't believe it was happening to me.

    Should you have drawn hard to say I wasn't there.

    When I was working I held my side arm along my leg many times when the sixth sense kicked in.

    Glad all worked out.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Went for a walk at midnight without a flashlight and a phone?

    The second pass (on the hill) would be about the appropriate time to light them up. Make it easy for you to keep track of them while making it difficult for them.

    The event also offers a real good excuse to sit down with the wife and talk about what to do when things get hinkey. Like discussing "code words" to tell her to move behind you. (Words like "Honey, get behind me on my right side NOW!") Like discussing code words to alert her to get the phone out and dial 911. (Words like "Honey, dial 911 and tell the cops we are at <tell her location> and there are two guys following us in a <color> van.")

    But bottom line? You came out of the incident whole. That means you did OK. Doing the above stuff just gives you a better chance for doing better if there is ever a next time.

    stay safe.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Hopefully you have, or will, discuss what happened with your wife. Situational awareness comes through again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshyne View Post
    Save your sarcasm and condescension for your friends.
    If you hang around a little while longer, you will find the ignore feature of this forum to be worthwhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshyne View Post
    Save your sarcasm and condescension for your friends.
    I feel like I should have drawn my gun and kept it hidden behind my back(it never broke kydex), or at least had my hand on the grip. I am certain that my wife was targeted to be a victim of a crime

    brandishing a weapon give the facts presented may have been against the law (18-3303 ID statue)... you need to re-check your threat assessments and responses.

    2 guys in a van driving up and down the block is not cause to pull your gun out.

    Sometimes sarcasm is kindness....

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I feel like I should have drawn my gun and kept it hidden behind my back(it never broke kydex), or at least had my hand on the grip. I am certain that my wife was targeted to be a victim of a crime

    brandishing a weapon give the facts presented may have been against the law (18-3303 ID statue)... you need to re-check your threat assessments and responses.

    2 guys in a van driving up and down the block is not cause to pull your gun out.

    Sometimes sarcasm is kindness....
    A gun hidden behind one's back is not brandishing in Va. - no one sees it, no one is threatened.

    Another tactic used by some is to reach to the small of the back (when there is no gun there) w/non-dominate hand - sends a very clear message w/o brandishing.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-22-2014 at 05:40 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A gun hidden behind one's back is not brandishing in Va. - no one sees it, no one is threatened.
    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. ....
    All of which is worth less that a puddle of warm spit since the OP lives in Iowa. My very brief survey of the Iowa Code http://search.legis.state.ia.us/nxt/...fn=default.htm failed to turn up anything similar to Virginia's brandishing law. That and Maid Rite make me like the place.

    But this

    Another tactic used by some is to reach to the small of the back (when there is no gun there) w/non-dominate hand - sends a very clear message w/o brandishing.
    only works if someone sees you doing it, which could form the basis for a complaint being filed, and then possibly a long and expensive journey to establish that while they thought you might have had a gun back there they did not actually see it so could not 'reasonably [have] induce[d] fear in the[ir] mind."

    If the OP's two mooks did not see him OCing, what makes you think they would be able to see his hand being held behind his back? You can't intimidate someone if they can't see you doing something intimidating.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    All of which is worth less that a puddle of warm spit since the OP lives in Iowa. My very brief survey of the Iowa Code http://search.legis.state.ia.us/nxt/...fn=default.htm failed to turn up anything similar to Virginia's brandishing law. <snip>

    stay safe.
    ID = Idaho ... I provided a cite of the brandishing statue ...

    But u are correct, not all states have brandishing laws ... most just require the gun to be touched ... so look into case law, crazy judges may change the actual plain meaning of words...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I feel like I should have drawn my gun and kept it hidden behind my back(it never broke kydex), or at least had my hand on the grip. I am certain that my wife was targeted to be a victim of a crime

    brandishing a weapon give the facts presented may have been against the law (18-3303 ID statue)... you need to re-check your threat assessments and responses.

    2 guys in a van driving up and down the block is not cause to pull your gun out.

    Sometimes sarcasm is kindness....
    What you're saying doesn't make sense.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Epic fail. You have no way to ID these guys. No license number, no photos of the truck. Why be such an aggro, close to brandishing and yet failing to get even the simplest information?

    Did you have a recorder on? Did you have a cell phone with camera?

    Jeeze ya gotta wonder if carrying lowers one's IQ; certainly it lowered your SA...you got nothin but a story, my fren.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Epic fail. [ ... ] Jeeze ya gotta wonder if carrying lowers one's IQ; certainly it lowered your SA...you got nothin but a story, my fren.
    But approved by the movement and leaders.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshyne View Post
    What you're saying doesn't make sense.
    David has a thing about using capitalization/punctuation, correctly, on a regular basis.
    brandishing a weapon give the facts presented may have been against the law (18-3303 ID statue)... you need to re-check your threat assessments and responses.

    2 guys in a van driving up and down the block is not cause to pull your gun out.
    What David should have posted, in my opinion.
    "Brandishing" a weapon, given the facts presented, may have been against Idaho law (18-3303 ID statue). May I suggest that you evaluate your threat assessment "mental check list" and your desired responses for the various situations evaluated.

    Given the facts presented, 2 guys in a van, driving up and down the block, is not cause to pull your gun out, in my opinion.

    It is good that you were aware, alert, and ready to act if needed.

    Thanks for posting.
    My view. Carry a tactical light. I carry one with 210 lumens. I will not carry one lower than 100 lumens, this will place a would be thug at a distinct disadvantage at night. I also encourage my wife to carry (she will only CC) as often as possible. She usually says "Well, your armed why do i need to carry." Yeah, I know, the logic escapes me too, it is a work in progress.

    Well done, all are safe it seems and there is another tray of nachos to be had in your wife's future.

    Good luck.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Epic fail. You have no way to ID these guys. No license number, no photos of the truck. Why be such an aggro, close to brandishing and yet failing to get even the simplest information?

    Did you have a recorder on? Did you have a cell phone with camera?

    Jeeze ya gotta wonder if carrying lowers one's IQ; certainly it lowered your SA...you got nothin but a story, my fren.
    You're commenting on a post you haven't read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Went for a walk at midnight without a flashlight and a phone?

    The second pass (on the hill) would be about the appropriate time to light them up. Make it easy for you to keep track of them while making it difficult for them.

    The event also offers a real good excuse to sit down with the wife and talk about what to do when things get hinkey. Like discussing "code words" to tell her to move behind you. (Words like "Honey, get behind me on my right side NOW!") Like discussing code words to alert her to get the phone out and dial 911. (Words like "Honey, dial 911 and tell the cops we are at <tell her location> and there are two guys following us in a <color> van.")

    But bottom line? You came out of the incident whole. That means you did OK. Doing the above stuff just gives you a better chance for doing better if there is ever a next time.

    stay safe.
    I did have a flashlight. which I remembered as I got further down the road. As useful as modern cell phones are, I have no plans of ever taking one with me on a joy walk. Other than that I always have my phone and I rarley leave the house without a full charge. Thanks for your input.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If the peacefulness of your outdoor excursion is worth so much that you would prevent yourself from taking what might be a life-saving bit of technology with you, then I can't find much sympathy. Muting a phone only takes the push of a button and the mere ounces that one weighs is negligible in comparison to a firearm of any worthwhile caliber.

    There is nothing quite so good at summoning help as a cellular phone, not letters, smoke signals, or even whistles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshyne View Post
    I did have a flashlight. which I remembered as I got further down the road. As useful as modern cell phones are, I have no plans of ever taking one with me on a joy walk. Other than that I always have my phone and I rarley leave the house without a full charge. Thanks for your input.
    Wait what? You have no plans of doing something on a 'joy walk'? Certainly you don't want to receive a call, so you turn off the volume. With no phone, no camera, you have no information on these people. Did you remember the license number and write it on your hand?

    Given the above why are you taking a 10mm on a Joy Walk. I think you're approaching 'dingbat' status, lol.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 07-22-2014 at 11:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Wait what? You have no plans of doing something on a 'joy walk'? Certainly you don't want to receive a call, so you turn off the volume. With no phone, no camera, you have no information on these people. Did you remember the license number and write it on your hand?

    Given the above why are you taking a 10mm on a Joy Walk. I think you're approaching 'dingbat' status, lol.
    Might have been better (not insulting) to say conduct/tactics inconsistant with responsible behavior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshyne View Post
    I did have a flashlight. which I remembered as I got further down the road. As useful as modern cell phones are, I have no plans of ever taking one with me on a joy walk. Other than that I always have my phone and I rarley leave the house without a full charge. Thanks for your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshyne View Post
    What you're saying doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by Bernymac; 07-22-2014 at 12:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ID = ... I provided a cite of the brandishing statue ....
    You mean this: "the law (18-3303 ID statue)"?

    Strange that in all the posting you have done you have either not noticed that most folks who provide a citation include a hyperlink as a courtesy, or at least actually quotes the relevant portion so that others can see the basis for the legal reasoning.

    http://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/...ECT18-3303.htm

    TITLE 18
    CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
    CHAPTER 33
    FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES AND OTHER DEADLY WEAPONS
    18-3303. EXHIBITION OR USE OF DEADLY WEAPON. Every person who, not in necessary self-defense, in the presence of two (2) or more persons, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon in a rude, angry and threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses the same, in any fight or quarrel, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

    History:
    [18-3303, added 1972, ch. 336, sec. 1, p. 911.]
    Seems to me that the law requires one to draw or exhibit a deadly weapon in a rude, and angry, and threatening manner all at the same time.

    Poor old Mr. Webster's dictionary is going to get quite a workout before someone gets nailed for violating this law.

    It seems to have a leg up on the Virginia brandishing statute as it requires a determination of the state of mind of the actor rather than the "feelings" experienced by the observer of the action. Let's stipulate that it is rude to pull a gun on somebody, and that by doing so you are in fact threatening them, and even tat there were two or more persons present whn you pulled the gun. But did you do it in an angry manner, or were you calm? "Move to dismiss, Your Honor, on the grounds that the prosecution has failed to prove all the elements of the crime."

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You mean this: "the law (18-3303 ID statue)"? ...
    It is only a misdemeanor. No harm no foul?

    A claim by the OP that he felt at the time that would be engaging in "necessary self defense," based on the totality of the circumstances (the facts he related in his op) as he knew them at the time would mitigate a conviction for violating the cited statute.

    A jury would have to agree with him, or disagree with the state and their contention that he did not reasonably fear for his safety and the safety of his spouse.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Walking at night with out a cell phone or flash light, horrors and horrors how did we ever survive with out them.

    Sure if you have them and want to carry them they are nice to have but I went on many night walks with out them.

    What does one do when you don't have any cell service there still are large areas that don't.


    One does the best he can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Walking at night with out a cell phone or flash light, horrors and horrors how did we ever survive with out them.

    Sure if you have them and want to carry them they are nice to have but I went on many night walks with out them.

    What does one do when you don't have any cell service there still are large areas that don't.

    One does the best he can.
    +1

    Yes, how did we ever survive.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    >80% US American's urban/suburban, never without streetlights and 911. M1911 help arrives at better'n 1000 fps.

    ETA Depending on just who is "we," we didn't survive.

    Only The Constitution Party represents America's rural conservative Country Class against the progressive Ruling Party of democrats, republicans an know-neither libertarians, progressives all. Progressivism is the political bowel movement to make-things-better leaving US to suffer the unintended consequences. How many laws have been repealed?
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-22-2014 at 06:43 PM.
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