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Thread: The Rising Backlash Against ANY Type of Open Carry -- If Not ALL Types

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    The Rising Backlash Against ANY Type of Open Carry -- If Not ALL Types

    For several years, I've recognized the fact that carriers of rifles and other long arms often complain they have no other way to exercise their right to keep and bear arms. While may be true, their tactics to gain attention are getting the wrong kind of attention, and that attention has adversely affected myself and others. Specifically, the bank with which I've done business for 4+ years while OCing has recently asked their security guards to "request" customers leave iron in their cars. Jimmy Johns, a sandwich shop into which I've OC'd a dozen times, asked me not to carry in their stores.

    In the last month alone, I hear increasingly negative complaints from businesses about all types of exercising of our Second Amendment rights, and that rising tide of counter-gun sentiment has hit the wild amplification of news channels. We won a significant victory in the summer of 2013 when we deposed two state legislators who blatantly disregarded their constituents when they shoved Colorado's gun laws down our throats. I watched the presentations live, and half a dozen legislators flat-out lied in open discussion, some with missing information, but many with such a load of crap it can only have come from a single source, completely made up, and wholly contrary to the FBI Crime Statistics Database and countless other studies indicating the exact opposite of what the liberal/democrat legislators were shoveling across the floor of Capitol Building in Denver last year. Supported in large part by Bloomberg, of course.

    Fortunately, Morse and Giron are gone. It's a shame we can't bar Bloomberg from any and all activities or actions having to do with the State of Colorado, but hey...

    Unfortunately, as well-explained by this blog article, the actions of long-gun carrying Constitutional brethren is being negatively amplified by our traditionally uber-liberal mainstream media, and is having a very deleterious impact.

    Put simply, we are ALL being hung out to dry.

    Don't get me wrong: I am ALL for right to keep and bear arms, regardless of the type of carry or the type of arms. What I refuse to support, however, is stupidity, and the flagrant "in your face" approach has always been stupid, regardless of the cause.

    I see this as a matter best fought in courts of law, as well as the court of public opinion, persuaded by exceptional and welcomed behavior, rather than tried, convicted, and hung in the courts of mainstream media because we were STUPID.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Whoops, you're now an anti freedom statist, how dare you suggest such a thing.....

    Haven't noticed any difference with pistols though.....
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    I'm sure the OP will feel different when the soldiers are walking down our streets with their rifles...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I'm sure the OP will feel different when the soldiers are walking down our streets with their rifles...
    Where has this happened, is happening, or about to happen in the USA?

    Excluding the original battle/war for our independence.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-22-2014 at 05:50 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    First of all, consider the source. Then consider the source.

    I'm not saying BA is completely tinfoil-hat crazy, seeing Commies and other things under the bed, but their reputation is not one of carefully reasoned discourse, either.

    Also, OCT has exposed the vast gaps that had been hiding just beneath the surface of the "We're all for RKBA" slogan-shouters. The rift between long-gun and handgun, the chasm separating CCers from OCers, and the guns-are-kewel side of the playground from the guns-are-necessary side.

    Any comments one might have regarding the OCT tactics should, in my very considered and biased opinion, be directed to that "organization" instead of making it look like we are in fact taking sides about what is scary as opposed to what is a right.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    [ ... ]Also, OCT has exposed the vast gaps that had been hiding just beneath the surface of the "We're all for RKBA" slogan-shouters. The rift between long-gun and handgun, the chasm separating CCers from OCers, and the guns-are-kewel side of the playground from the guns-are-necessary side. [ ... ]
    Divide and conquer is effective. Claims of movement and solidarity are red meat.

    ETA: Boston Marathon aftermath had armored vehicles, tanks in a word, and paramilitary rifles in American streets.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-22-2014 at 06:27 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Divide and conquer is effective. Claims of movement and solidarity are red meat.

    ETA: Boston Marathon aftermath had armored vehicles, tanks in a word, and paramilitary rifles in American streets.
    See, right there ^^ is a perfect example of taking something and blowing it up all out of proportion. MWRAPS are not tanks by any stretch of the definition. And if the cops carried "paramilitary rifles" then what is it so many of us have in our safes?

    By the same token as this poster has chosen to use, a pickup truck with a spray-on bed liner is an armored vehicle. No, seriously! Check out the bullet-resistant properties that stuff has.

    As for "paramilitary" - did the cops' rifles have bayonet lugs? 'Cause if you are going to be a paramilitary you need to be equipped to conduct a bayonet charge. BTW - the Girl Scouts with their cookies are a paramilitary organization, just like the cops are. Heck, the high school marching band could be called paramilitary if they could all get in step!

    If "divide and conquer" does not work, go to Step #2: Sound like a *******, using buzzwords that the low-information voters do not understand but sound scary.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Where has this happened, is happening, or about to happen in the USA?

    Excluding the original battle/war for our independence.
    The Big Easy, circa 2005. The Constitution Suspension Event, Boston, circa 2013. But, those don't count, do they, cuz "states" of emergency were called.

    Never let it be said that the citizenry can protect themselves better than the state can protect the citizenry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Where has this happened, is happening, or about to happen in the USA?

    Excluding the original battle/war for our independence.
    New Orleans (Karina) ... one could say Boston of recent (if one want to call them "soldiers", a strong argument that they were the equivalent)

    like said above ^^^ Come on Grape ... you must admit this ...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-22-2014 at 07:27 AM.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    So what should be done to combat the so called "rising backlash against any type of open carry"? Should we all not exercise the right to bear arms because some people think open carry in certain ways or certain places is "unreasonable", "inappropriate", and even "unacceptable" because they are offended that someone would dare exercise their right in a way they think is stupid?

    That kind of thinking is the same old "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" crap handed out by people who want their opinions to be the criteria that controls the "you can" part.

    And it is the same kind of thinking that says if we don't exercise our rights no one will be offended and then we can keep our rights... as long as we don't exercise them.

    Let's tell it like it really is. The recent spate of negativity isn't because of open carry of any kind... it is because of Bloomberg funded anti gun organizations pushing businesses into taking a side on an issue that has nothing to do with doing business and that is something the business doesn't want to do.

    And make no mistake... those same anti gun organizations may be focusing on open carry right now but will target concealed carry soon enough because they are anti gun... not just anti open carry.

    So how about we stand up, actually get off our arses and stand up, for the right to bear arms by open carrying, even in ways some folks might consider "stupid" or "in your face" despite (or maybe because of) the anti gun push back instead of letting organizations funded by megalomaniacs like Bloomberg chase the right to bear arms into hiding.

    If we are afraid to exercise the right to bear arms what good is it to have the right to bear arms?

    *I am aware that I am preaching mostly to the choir because most folks on this website do "get off their arses" and stand up for the right to bear arms.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 07-22-2014 at 07:52 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    [ ... ]By the same token as this poster has chosen to use, a pickup truck with a spray-on bed liner is an armored vehicle. No, seriously! Check out the bullet-resistant properties that stuff has [ ... ].
    Bed liner as armor.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    New Orleans (Karina) ... one could say Boston of recent (if one want to call them "soldiers", a strong argument that they were the equivalent)

    like said above ^^^ Come on Grape ... you must admit this ...
    Nope - it is not a general, normal condition AND LEOs are not military soldiers.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    See, right there ^^ is a perfect example of taking something and blowing it up all out of proportion. MWRAPS are not tanks by any stretch of the definition. And if the cops carried "paramilitary rifles" then what is it so many of us have in our safes?

    By the same token as this poster has chosen to use, a pickup truck with a spray-on bed liner is an armored vehicle. No, seriously! Check out the bullet-resistant properties that stuff has.

    As for "paramilitary" - did the cops' rifles have bayonet lugs? 'Cause if you are going to be a paramilitary you need to be equipped to conduct a bayonet charge. BTW - the Girl Scouts with their cookies are a paramilitary organization, just like the cops are. Heck, the high school marching band could be called paramilitary if they could all get in step!

    If "divide and conquer" does not work, go to Step #2: Sound like a *******, using buzzwords that the low-information voters do not understand but sound scary.

    stay safe.
    Well said sir. +100

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    See, right there ^^ is a perfect example of taking something and blowing it up all out of proportion. MWRAPS are not tanks by any stretch of the definition. And if the cops carried "paramilitary rifles" then what is it so many of us have in our safes?

    By the same token as this poster has chosen to use, a pickup truck with a spray-on bed liner is an armored vehicle. No, seriously! Check out the bullet-resistant properties that stuff has.

    As for "paramilitary" - did the cops' rifles have bayonet lugs? 'Cause if you are going to be a paramilitary you need to be equipped to conduct a bayonet charge. BTW - the Girl Scouts with their cookies are a paramilitary organization, just like the cops are. Heck, the high school marching band could be called paramilitary if they could all get in step!

    If "divide and conquer" does not work, go to Step #2: Sound like a *******, using buzzwords that the low-information voters do not understand but sound scary.

    stay safe.
    Tank, no, armored vehicles, yes.

    Paramilitary...well:
    para·mil·i·tary adjective \ˌpa-rə-ˈmi-lə-ˌter-ē\

    : of or relating to a group that is not an official army but that operates and is organized like an army
    Your viewpoint is inconsistent with the images captured of dudes who looked like they were in the army. Yes, every liberty seeking citizen should own a paramilitary rife.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Where has this happened, is happening, or about to happen in the USA?

    Excluding the original battle/war for our independence.
    NOLA post Katrina.

    As to the OP, butting a right is about as stupid as it gets, or selfish depending on the motive.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-22-2014 at 10:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    So what should be done to combat the so called "rising backlash against any type of open carry"? Should we all not exercise the right to bear arms because some people think open carry in certain ways or certain places is "unreasonable", "inappropriate", and even "unacceptable" because they are offended that someone would dare exercise their right in a way they think is stupid?

    That kind of thinking is the same old "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" crap handed out by people who want their opinions to be the criteria that controls the "you can" part.

    And it is the same kind of thinking that says if we don't exercise our rights no one will be offended and then we can keep our rights... as long as we don't exercise them.


    Let's tell it like it really is. The recent spate of negativity isn't because of open carry of any kind... it is because of Bloomberg funded anti gun organizations pushing businesses into taking a side on an issue that has nothing to do with doing business and that is something the business doesn't want to do.

    And make no mistake... those same anti gun organizations may be focusing on open carry right now but will target concealed carry soon enough because they are anti gun... not just anti open carry.

    So how about we stand up, actually get off our arses and stand up, for the right to bear arms by open carrying, even in ways some folks might consider "stupid" or "in your face" despite (or maybe because of) the anti gun push back instead of letting organizations funded by megalomaniacs like Bloomberg chase the right to bear arms into hiding.

    If we are afraid to exercise the right to bear arms what good is it to have the right to bear arms?

    *I am aware that I am preaching mostly to the choir because most folks on this website do "get off their arses" and stand up for the right to bear arms.
    I like the way you think!

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    So what should be done to combat the so called "rising backlash against any type of open carry"? Should we all not exercise the right to bear arms because some people think open carry in certain ways or certain places is "unreasonable", "inappropriate", and even "unacceptable" because they are offended that someone would dare exercise their right in a way they think is stupid?
    Good question. I'm not at all offended by any form of carry of any type of firearm. My concern rests solely with the rising backlash I've noticed in both the media and local institutions in recent weeks. It I had to give it a label, this summer appears to be "the cool time for businesses to restrict firearms in their businesses."

    Yes, it's their right to do so. However, when they do so, they do not appear to comprehend the fact that so-called "gun-free zones" are, in fact, just over 17 times MORE DANGEROUS than areas in which honest, law-abiding people can carry firearms to protect and defend themselves and their loved ones. It appears they're incapable of understanding either the strong deterrent nature of an armed citizenry, and seem utterly ignorant of the facts and statistics surrounding this safety issue, how they're vastly more safe from all types of crime and incidents if they were to respect our Constitution and the rights it confers on their customers, than they are by infringing on the rights of their customers.


    It's wrongful, ignorant, and quite frankly, dangerous thinking.

    That kind of thinking is the same old "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" crap handed out by people who want their opinions to be the criteria that controls the "you can" part.
    I wholeheartedly concur.

    And it is the same kind of thinking that says if we don't exercise our rights no one will be offended and then we can keep our rights... as long as we don't exercise them.
    There's a threshold well-known to those who study organizational behavior, below which if we increasingly exercise our rights, it will serve to familiarize others, but above which it does more harm than good.

    That threshold changes over time, but it changes at it's own pace, not ours.

    If we push from below the threshold, it changes in our favor, until we're all carrying openly again, everywhere. Well, not quite, but close.

    If we push while above that threshold, the opposite happens, and resistance increases faster than acceptance.

    Let's tell it like it really is. The recent spate of negativity isn't because of open carry of any kind... it is because of Bloomberg funded anti gun organizations pushing businesses into taking a side on an issue that has nothing to do with doing business and that is something the business doesn't want to do.
    That's undoubtedly one of the reasons. It may also be true that Bloomberg did so because we're pushing him so hard, so he's pushing back. Quitting is obviously not the answer. Educating businesses is the answer, and the above paragraph in blue is one I like to use.

    And make no mistake... those same anti gun organizations may be focusing on open carry right now but will target concealed carry soon enough because they are anti gun... not just anti open carry.
    That, too, is a legitimate concern, a fair reason not to give them the ammunition to push back. I appears the increasingly "in-your-face" nature of some of the long-gun rallies gives them precisely the ammunition they seek.

    So how about we stand up, actually get off our arses and stand up, for the right to bear arms by open carrying, even in ways some folks might consider "stupid" or "in your face" despite (or maybe because of) the anti gun push back instead of letting organizations funded by megalomaniacs like Bloomberg chase the right to bear arms into hiding.
    Instead of playing right into their hands, let's get smarter about this and carry wherever we go throughout the normal course of our regular round of business, rather than staging events which give their liberal media the opportunity to twist back upon us. Let's create a normative impression, one in which shop owners get to know us as human beings the same as all the rest of their customers, so that when organizations like what Bloomberg are funding knock on their doors, the shop owners say, "Yeah, right. We're not buying the crap you're trying to sell."

    In that vein, I will absolutely continue to open carry throughout the normal course of my own day. I will do so, however, respectfully and tastefully.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-23-2014 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Rule #19
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    I just cannot condemn those folks who choose to OC long guns. Though I understand the OPs point the blame goes onto those who backlash against the lawful right...

    On a similar note I have heard probably 10 times as many complaints from CCers against handgun OCers than I have hand gun OCers against long gun OCers. Though the manor of carry be slightly different the complaint is the same. "they just want an in-your-face reaction"
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    These stores are not stupid or naive. They had plenty of time to come up with their new "policies" after seeing the propaganda. They were quite happy to have an impetus to make these new "policies" and finally have a reason to tell the nicely armed people that they, too, were not welcome.

    You no longer have to patronize these businesses in your ignorance. You can legitimately thank the "protesters" for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Good question. I'm not at all offended by any form of carry of any type of firearm. My concern rests solely with the rising backlash I've noticed in both the media and local institutions in recent weeks. It I had to give it a label, this summer appears to be "the cool time for businesses to restrict firearms in their businesses."

    .


    Or are we just reacting to the media driven hype of a very few anti gun people or originations .

    Here's a link out laying it fairly well partial article full text at link

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/07...tles-open.html


    The marketing expertise of Moms Demand Action has created a media campaign to demonize the open carry of long guns, especially in Texas. Shannon Watts, who heads MDA is a longtime professional at creating media campaigns:


    She is not just Suzy Homemaker or some low-grade employee at a small company but a heavy Public relations hitter, savvy on the ways of media manipulation and making her clients look good. Basically she “grows” astroturf for a living.

    Open carry activism in Texas has become so effective that both Governor candidates have endorsed the legalization of the open carry of handguns, the stated objective of the open carry groups in Texas. The media campaign to demonize open carry is attempted pushback.

    The campaign has backfired, though it has managed to deceive some of those in the gun culture who have been predisposed to denigrate open carry.

    The primary tool used by those who wish a disarmed population is deception, or more correctly, the creation of a narrative designed to demonize the gun culture without regard to facts. Moms Demand Action demonstrated this with the use of the famous
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-23-2014 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Fixed quote box - a snipped quotation
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    Use of the famous - what?

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    Let's see~~a group of patriots in Texas are supposed to voluntarily give up their right to OC COMPLETELY. SO another OCer in another state does not get trespassed from a couple places.

    Real liberty minded there dontcha think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Let's see~~a group of patriots in Texas are supposed to voluntarily give up their right to OC COMPLETELY. SO another OCer in another state does not get trespassed from a couple places.

    Real liberty minded there dontcha think.
    Very good point.

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    Yes, it's their right to do so. However, when they do so, they do not appear to comprehend the fact that so-called "gun-free zones" are, in fact, just over 17 times MORE DANGEROUS than areas in which honest, law-abiding people can carry firearms to protect and defend themselves and their loved ones. It appears they're incapable of understanding either the strong deterrent nature of an armed citizenry, and seem utterly ignorant of the facts and statistics surrounding this safety issue, how they're vastly more safe from all types of crime and incidents if they were to respect our Constitution and the rights it confers on their customers, than they are by infringing on the rights of their customers.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


    Could you cite where you aquired that stat of "17 times more dangerous" from, I would like to have that info. Thanks.

    From posting #17
    Last edited by OC Freedom; 07-23-2014 at 12:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Let's see~~a group of patriots in Texas are supposed to voluntarily give up their right to OC COMPLETELY. SO another OCer in another state does not get trespassed from a couple places.

    Real liberty minded there dontcha think.
    Lost me on this one?
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