Empty holster

If i am going in somewhere that doesn't allow firearms,I have a bicycle lock that is pretty thick cable that I run throught the chamber and out the bottom of the grip,and then around the seat frame.I just carry the mag with me.

cloudcroft said:

Well, I guess if one's gun falls out of the holster in public, and then it's found by someone, we'd get GWAM calls to 911 (Gun Without A Man), rather than the MWAG as usual (Man With A Gun). ;-)


My gun has never fallen out of my holster, but my magazine has fallen out of the gun. Twice. And in public. But no one noticed, and I was there to retrieve it immediately. After the second time, it was safely taped in position -- I just need to change the tape every so often when it becomes a bit raggedy.

Regardless, every time I get up from sitting (such as @ a table in a restuarant, or getting out of my car), I check 2 things:

-- Has my holster's retention strap become unsnapped?

-- Is the magazine still fully seated in the gun?

Only takes a second to do, and even when walking for any length of time, I do the check. No need to LOOK down there, it's just a quick check by feel.

It's much like walking around with your katana: You check occasionally to be sure it's still in its saya! Am I the only one with that particular concern? ;-)


Anyway, it's good to check occasionally to make sure you really ARE (and still) carrying WHATEVER it is you started out carrying.

"Prudence is as prudence does." -- Forrest Gump

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I've got to ask.... If your magazine is taped into firearm how do you reload or clear some malfunctions?

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Primus said:

I've got to ask.... If your magazine is taped into firearm how do you reload or clear some malfunctions?

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Uhh...I would...and this is just a wild guess...remove the tape. That is, of course, if I have a bolt cutter handy in my shirt pocket next to my slide rule

Bernymac said:

Uhh...I would...and this is just a wild guess...remove the tape. That is, of course, if I have a bolt cutter handy in my shirt pocket next to my slide rule

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Lol hope u practice said bolt cutting slide rile action behind cover.

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skidmark said:

Sadly, administrative handling of your handgun just increases the number of opportunities for a negligent discharge. If you inist on leaving your handgun behind, invest the few bucks in some sort of "vault" that you can then cable-lock to a structural member.

If you took a look at my vehicle you would understand my reluctance to hide a handgun under the floor mat - even encased in a gun "vault".

Question - what do you suggest someone do with all the cartridges that they have just removed? Carry them in their pocket? Dump them in the cup holder?

Seriously, how many times does someone have their vehicle broken into and their handgun removed if the handgun is in some manner locked? (Except for locking it in the glove box - probably place #2 that a smash&grab theif looks.) Your level of paranoia is charming and amusing but probably not reasonable.

stay safe.

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He's trying to remain a Law-Abiding Citizen (asinine though the laws in question may be), and is doing what he can under the circumstances; some guys tend to be in the same boat ($$, age, etc.).

I agree that the handling of sidearms increases the likelihood of a ND.

hafnhaf said:

In VA if you reach down to check that your gun is secure and the mag is still there, you could get arrested for brandishing if someone saw you and was scared.

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use an elbow, not a hand.

cloudcroft said:

hafnhaf,
On the occasional/rare days I have a VA Clinic doctor's appointment, however, I dare NOT wear the empty holster into the VA building (Federal property), as they probably would freak out, let alone assume the missing gun is in my car in their parking lot (also Federal property) -- and that'd be trouble for me. Big-time. Same for the pansies @ the US Post Office.
Just like plans to live forever: So far, so good...

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I wear an empty holster at the VA EVERY time I go. One time I came out of an eye examination to find a bloody swat team of very nervous "LEOs" waiting for me. Someone had MWAGed me for the empty holster, saying he saw a gun. I was searched and questioned as to why I was wearing the empty holster and I replied that, "I had a VA appointment so I left it at home".I told them that I don't take off the holster just because I am in a GFZ. They let me go, but took my knife with one inch blade(zero tolerance). Now I wear the holster just to irritate them.
I do not go to POs anymore. I have found several "annexes" in little in and out gas stations that do not mind the pistol.
And that part about living forever.....it seems to be working for me so far.

When I use my IWB holster I have to constantly check to make sure the mag is fully seated. I've found it unseated, though not completely fallen out, on numerous occasions. Modified the holster to try and prevent the problem, but, still made it a habit to check it. I've never had the whole handgun fall out, though.

Outside of a protest, I'm not sure what reason there would be to OC a holster... Other than, as mentioned before, maybe "easing into" OCing...

skidmark said:

Sadly, administrative handling of your handgun just increases the number of opportunities for a negligent discharge. If you inist on leaving your handgun behind, invest the few bucks in some sort of "vault" that you can then cable-lock to a structural member.

If you took a look at my vehicle you would understand my reluctance to hide a handgun under the floor mat - even encased in a gun "vault".

Question - what do you suggest someone do with all the cartridges that they have just removed? Carry them in their pocket? Dump them in the cup holder?

Seriously, how many times does someone have their vehicle broken into and their handgun removed if the handgun is in some manner locked? (Except for locking it in the glove box - probably place #2 that a smash&grab theif looks.) Your level of paranoia is charming and amusing but probably not reasonable.

stay safe.

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That's exactly what I do. Why would I suggest removing the ammo then simply leave it in the car for the BG to use to shoot you? Call it paranoia but at least I wont have a skidmark in my pants when the BG is pointing my fully loaded firearm at me.

MSG Laigaie,

I just prefer not to give the VA even a CLUE that this particular vet has a gun...but I do often forget to remove my "Gerber 05786 Applegate Covert Double Bevel Titanium Knife" so if the VA finds that, then I'm out $100+ to replace it (plus any jail-time-on-my-own-dime as per legal fees, etc.)...but so far they haven't. I keep seeing that sign posted on the entrance doors saying "No Guns or Kinves Allowed in This Facility" (with pictures of a gun & knife in case we vets can't read) with the additional message "For Your Protection," but I often forget to make everyone safer by leaving my knife in my car.

After all, I need SOME weapon on hand if the pycho-vet sitting next to me acts up, yes? That SIGN ain't gonna help me, and their armed security is usually elsewhere in the building (I guess). ;-)

Anyway, if I were to carry an empty holster inside the building, they'd surely search my car and charge me with having a firearm on Federal property. If I refused permission to search, they would just impound the car and as per official policy (well, at least what they do in TX when I lived there) "inventory" everything in the car -- for the "safety and protection" of any personal property in the car, of course, "just in case anything goes missing" -- and naturally, they'd find my gun (and spare ammo) during the official "inventory" process. Perhaps even an SKS, too, secured with 2 handcuffs behind my front seats (and ammo belt)...but that's another topic!

Would that "arsenal" just make their otherwise boring day a tad more interesting? ;-)

As for the USPS, I ALSO prefer a contract mail station, which I go to regularly. It's just that for SOME things, you have to go to the USPS itself. Such as, making complaints against a retarded (I guess) mail-carrier, who has problems delivering the mail. I've had to go to the USPS a number of times to complain about this same mail-carrier, and/or to pick up lost or misdelivered mail/packages. I HAVE worn my empty holster in there on occasion (not ALWAYS), but realize I take the risk, as I believe USPS policy is the same as the VA: No guns on their property, meaning also their parking lot even if in your car and locked in a safe.

But otherwise, I go to my MUCH nicer, well-staffed, very friendly local "Mail Stop Market" (3rd-party/contract station) just up the street to mail-off packages. Did the same thing back in TX, as the USPS there is also terrible: Very few clerks, very LONG lines, etc. What a SORRY organization and no wonder they are in decline.

"Live long (if not forever) & Prosper." -- Mr. Spock

Happy Empty Holstering...although that MIGHT impact living long! ;-)

"Outside of a protest, I'm not sure what reason there would be to OC a holster... Other than, as mentioned before, maybe "easing into" OCing..." -- stealthyeliminator


Besides OC-ers (of course), this is one reason I also invite "newbies" (and CC-ers) to our OC events: To give them moral support & encouragement to get started OC-ing.

Or even go with one of us on an "OC outing" somewhere...

I suggest that any of us, in any state, organizing/hosting OC events do the very same: "Embrace Diversity" (as per liberals) -- meaning newbies and CC-ers!

...have you hugged a newbie or CC-er lately? ;-)

How old were they? I knew some who were 18-21 year olds who would wear empty holsters as a form of protest.

hafnhaf said:

In VA if you reach down to check that your gun is secure and the mag is still there, you could get arrested for brandishing if someone saw you and was scared.

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I can see that happening if some idiot checks it incessantly, like once every 10-15 seconds. That sort of obsessive-compulsive behavior might raise a few eyebrows.

Researching Virginia law on brandishing, I came across a very interesting article in which Claire Cardwell, partner with criminal defense and personal injury firm Stone Cardwell & Dinkin, explains the key elements of brandishing under Virginia State law. Given the elements of the Reed case, acting aggressively while carrying a firearm may very well be brandishing, but it's doubtful she would have been charged had she left the firearm in its holster.

This and many related issues boils down to the fact that when you're carrying a firearm, things will invariably go smoother in the long run if your behavior warrants higher respect than lesser.

cloudcroft said:

I know what you mean about the "panic" setting in.

Well, at least if my gun falls out, no one would ever know it's mine: Using the incredibly brilliant foresight I possess -- in case that "missing gun" scenario ever happened -- I filed the SN off it real good!

Yep...that should work...

;-)

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I hope you're joking...

Javelina said:

When going out to dinner with a buddy of mine out here in AZ (He is a LEO), we went to an establishment that served alcohol. Being 19 and not having my CCW I was forced to leave my firearm in the vehicle.

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One of the reasons I moved to a state where open carry doesn't require a permit, and it's legal to open carry in any establishment that serves alcohol. Obviously, the other option is to avoid bars while carrying a firearm. As "intoxicated" has no formal definition with respect to the carry or use of a firearm in my state, I never drink and carry. Even a sip could be misconstrued by an eyewitness as "yeah, he and his buddy were drinking beers." Even if it has zero effect, it raises reasonable doubt in a court of law, particularly among jurors in the hands of a crafty prosecuting attorney.

skidmark said:

Sadly, administrative handling of your handgun just increases the number of opportunities for a negligent discharge. If you inist on leaving your handgun behind, invest the few bucks in some sort of "vault" that you can then cable-lock to a structural member.

Click to expand...

The best approach I've seen for any safe uses case-hardened, pan-head bolts, preferably in a hidden or difficult to access area, where the nuts and lock washers are attached to the bolts from the inside of the safe. Almost all safes have such provisions, even the small Winchester gun safe I bought for $30 from Walmart.

Question - what do you suggest someone do with all the cartridges that they have just removed? Carry them in their pocket? Dump them in the cup holder?

Seriously, how many times does someone have their vehicle broken into and their handgun removed if the handgun is in some manner locked? (Except for locking it in the glove box - probably place #2 that a smash&grab theif looks.) Your level of paranoia is charming and amusing but probably not reasonable.

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Good questions, but I think Javalina's level of paranoia actually came from her LEO friend, not her.

On the other hand, my vehicle was broken into about a year ago and the thieves stole a $5 knife, two cheap pens, my registration and insurance, and a 10mm Craftsman wrench I used for tightening something on my bicycle. They left the $100 CB, the $40 antenna, two hex wrenches (also used on my bicycle), and a $60 power converter.

I have a top-notch identity theft guard, so good luck to anyone who tries opening any financial implement in my name! One individual in Las Vegas, in 2001, learned the hard way that meant a one-way ticket to Azkaban! Do NOT mess with my credit! One German firm and one U.S. firm also learned the hard way about the legal repercussions when a business files a false credit report. I keep very good records...

since 9,

Yes...please note the emoticon after my earlier "admission."

since9 said:

I can see that happening if some idiot checks it incessantly, like once every 10-15 seconds. That sort of obsessive-compulsive behavior might raise a few eyebrows.

Researching Virginia law on brandishing, I came across a very interesting article in which Claire Cardwell, partner with criminal defense and personal injury firm Stone Cardwell & Dinkin, explains the key elements of brandishing under Virginia State law. Given the elements of the Reed case, acting aggressively while carrying a firearm may very well be brandishing, but it's doubtful she would have been charged had she left the firearm in its holster.

This and many related issues boils down to the fact that when you're carrying a firearm, things will invariably go smoother in the long run if your behavior warrants higher respect than lesser.



I hope you're joking...



One of the reasons I moved to a state where open carry doesn't require a permit, and it's legal to open carry in any establishment that serves alcohol. Obviously, the other option is to avoid bars while carrying a firearm. As "intoxicated" has no formal definition with respect to the carry or use of a firearm in my state, I never drink and carry. Even a sip could be misconstrued by an eyewitness as "yeah, he and his buddy were drinking beers." Even if it has zero effect, it raises reasonable doubt in a court of law, particularly among jurors in the hands of a crafty prosecuting attorney.



The best approach I've seen for any safe uses case-hardened, pan-head bolts, preferably in a hidden or difficult to access area, where the nuts and lock washers are attached to the bolts from the inside of the safe. Almost all safes have such provisions, even the small Winchester gun safe I bought for $30 from Walmart.



Good questions, but I think Javalina's level of paranoia actually came from her LEO friend, not her.

On the other hand, my vehicle was broken into about a year ago and the thieves stole a $5 knife, two cheap pens, my registration and insurance, and a 10mm Craftsman wrench I used for tightening something on my bicycle. They left the $100 CB, the $40 antenna, two hex wrenches (also used on my bicycle), and a $60 power converter.

I have a top-notch identity theft guard, so good luck to anyone who tries opening any financial implement in my name! One individual in Las Vegas, in 2001, learned the hard way that meant a one-way ticket to Azkaban! Do NOT mess with my credit! One German firm and one U.S. firm also learned the hard way about the legal repercussions when a business files a false credit report. I keep very good records...

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To the first statement I really do wish I was joking but with being 19 I have no choice, if I was able to carry though I can promise you I wouldn't drink as I agree 100% with your statement of how drinks and guns don't mix.

and to the 2nd statement I'm not paranoid just overly protective about my firearm, however I don't mind being called paranoid as long as I'm safe. Also just for the record I'm a guy, not sure how you came up with the idea I was a girl...

...perhaps because your forum ID is "JavelinA" instead of "JavelinO?"

I mean, you know that in Spanish (the de facto language of Amierca nowadays)...


Just kidding! Don't shoot me because I'm a comedian!

Primus,

I don't worry about clearing malfunctions. It's "get it done in 6" (if there ARE no malfunctions) -- or bust. Don't care. I've nothing to lose either way.

But on the bright side, I have to tell you that my gun is highly reliable (less FTFs using bottleneck cartridges), so malfunctions are not expected...

-- Paul Kersey

cloudcroft said:

...perhaps because your forum ID is "JavelinA" instead of "JavelinO?"

I mean, you know that in Spanish (the de facto language of Amierca nowadays)...


Just kidding! Don't shoot me because I'm a comedian!

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Haha it's all good, pretty funny guy there Mr. Cloudcroft

Javelina said:

and to the 2nd statement I'm not paranoid just overly protective about my firearm, however I don't mind being called paranoid as long as I'm safe. Also just for the record I'm a guy, not sure how you came up with the idea I was a girl...

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Probably because throughout the Indo-European languages, which cover 439 languages and dialects, names ending in -ina are considered feminine, whereas those ending in -ino are considered masculine. Outside the seven Latin languages, the rule is not ubiquitous, but it's highly prevalent.

I apologize for the mistake.

I've actually had to make an unscheduled or inconvenient stop at school, for my kids, parked just off school property and secured my firearm in my vehicle. One time, I had to go to the emergency room (hospital policy).

The Serpa Black Hawk holster can be a pain to remove. Removing it with the firearm in it would be more likely to have an unintentional discharge. I always remove the firearm, then the holster.

Once I've removed the firearm, I've met the requirements of the law, no need to go further and certainly no need to fight with my holster. ;o)

FallonJeeper said:

Once I've removed the firearm, I've met the requirements of the law, no need to go further and certainly no need to fight with my holster. ;o)

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All true. However, I would think running around with an empty holster would raise more eyebrows than running around with a holster that's carrying what it's designed to carry.

That said, provided no laws are broken, raising eyebrows is a perfectly lawful activity.