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Thread: Is YOUR ISP throttling or blocking high-bandwidth websites who refuse payola?

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Is YOUR ISP throttling or blocking high-bandwidth websites who refuse payola?

    Mine is. So I wrote my Congressman with the details:

    To the Honorable Congressman X:

    I would like to give you a concrete example of why I heartily endorse 100% Net Neutrality.

    For the last couple of weeks, Comcast has been directly and flagrantly violating several federal telecommunication regulations by unlawfully blocking access to a legal Internet streaming pay-per-view movie site. The movies are the same as you'd see in any public movie theater, and are licensed to this streaming company for resale.

    Apparently, Comcast doesn't like the site because unlike Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon, they're not getting customer subscription kickbacks from the site as they are from the three big companies.

    This is NOT Net Neutrality. When our ISP decides what we can and cannot access based on whether or not they're making any profit from it, they absolutely WILL choke off EVERYTHING that takes up any significant bandwidth, particularly in the near ISP monopoly existing here in Colorado Springs. When this behavior is allowed to continue, costs go through the roof while all incentive for innovation, cost reductions, and competition are robbed. We the People LOOSE, and so does our nation as a whole.

    What happens if Congress throws Net Neutrality out the window, and Comcast and other Internet Service Provides have an even greater financial incentive to slow unfavorable content to such a crawl that it's no longer available AT ALL to a paying customer?

    I know they're blocking the website, for several reasons:

    1. The site still returns pings and traceroutes. Just no content.

    2. When I access the site through an encrypted proxy, the content comes through immediately, without interception, hindrance, or blocking. In this mode, Comcast is unable to penetrate the encrypted tunnel or see what's in the content. Similarly, the site appears as being fully up on any number of website monitoring programs which do NOT access the Internet through Comcast.

    3. Whenever I try to access the content directly, I receive no errors from either the website or the DNS servers. I simply don't receive any content at all.

    4. These tests are verifiable and repeatable.

    To the best of my knowledge, that directly and flagrantly violates several current federal telecommunication regulations.

    It is for these and many similar reasons I FULLY support 100% Net Neutrality. Please do NOT allow any Internet Service Provider, including Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T, to make ANY decisions about what their customers can and cannot access, or the rate at which they may access the content. Please allow We the People to make that decision. Allow We the People to directly set the course of innovation, the continual improvement of speed while simultaneously slowing costs, by our open and free market choices.

    Indeed, when competition is allowed free range, as it is in Houston Texas, consumers may choose from upwards of 12 ISPs. They pay HALF of what we pay here in Colorado Springs for TWICE the throughput. This is the direct result of Net Neutrality in the midst of free and open market competition.

    In fact, I strongly suggest Comcast be called forth to explain their behavior, receive censure, and possibly face criminal prosecution for their flagrant violation of federal telecommunications laws.

    I also strongly encourage you to increase the fines and penalties for this sort of behavior, as it should NEVER be tolerated in a free society!

    Sincerely,

    TIME TO WRITE YOUR OWN CONGRESSMAN!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Currently they are not violating any federal regulations. Which is why we need them to be reclassified as common carriers, so they will be regulated and prohibited from these practices.

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    So much for less and smaller government as a route to a free market.

    Somewhere around there is a website tool to test for ISP throttling. If I come across it again, I'll post it.

    ETA: Glasnost - Detect throttling and blocking of common applications

    http://www.measurementlab.net/

    There are three other tools, but Glasnost is on point.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-23-2014 at 06:27 AM.
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    Op wants net neutrality thinking its going to solve his bandwidth issues .... clearly does not know what "net neutrality" means.

    No educated freedom loving person is pro-net neutrality.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Comcast is my service provider - I am not blocked - can watch videos via internet fine.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Sounds like he was upset he couldn't watch his "legal pay per view movies".....

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Op wants net neutrality thinking its going to solve his bandwidth issues .... clearly does not know what "net neutrality" means.

    No educated freedom loving person is pro-net neutrality.
    As an educated, freedom loving person, I fully support net neutrality.

    Can you list the reasons you do not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    As an educated, freedom loving person, I fully support net neutrality. Can you list the reasons you do not?
    Who will maintain/enforce net neutrality? Who prevents abuse of the Commons?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Who will maintain/enforce net neutrality? Who prevents abuse of the Commons?
    The FCC. What abuse? You mean the current, on going abuse by the ISPs or the hypothetical abuse of the government?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    We have problems with Charter, but more regulation will not solve the problem. Less regulation and healthy competition would solve the problem.

    Cable companies that have no competition can do what they please pretty much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    As an educated, freedom loving person, I fully support net neutrality.

    Can you list the reasons you do not?
    You need to read-up on what the gov't thinks this means.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    We have problems with Charter, but more regulation will not solve the problem. Less regulation and healthy competition would solve the problem.

    Cable companies that have no competition can do what they please pretty much.
    +1 Government helps create the problem to ask for it to solve it is insanity.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    We have problems with Charter, but more regulation will not solve the problem. Less regulation and healthy competition would solve the problem.

    Cable companies that have no competition can do what they please pretty much.
    Greater competition would be AMAZING. But it's a pipe dream. It is not feasible, not any time within the next couple decades. Even the behemoth of Google is rolling out their services very slowly.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You need to read-up on what the gov't thinks this means.
    That's not an argument. How about some actual points, an opinion by facts and sources?

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1 Government helps create the problem to ask for it to solve it is insanity.
    The government isn't the issue here, it's the ISPs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    \


    That's not an argument. How about some actual points, an opinion by facts and sources?
    I suggested people to search out and learn what "net neutrality" actually means ... its too deep a subject to cover here and is off topic, so I just made the note that I did...

  16. #16
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I suggested people to search out and learn what "net neutrality" actually means ... its too deep a subject to cover here and is off topic, so I just made the note that I did...
    It's actually pretty on topic, considering the topic is net neutrality. You made statements like "educate yourself," you oppose net neutrality and when I asked why, you danced around the question like a politician.

    Net neutrality is a really simple issue. It boils down to the ISPs failing to deliver the service expected by throttling various types of traffic. Now the EFF and a bunch of consumer groups are demanding that the FCC reclassifies ISPs as common carriers and prohibit their throttling policies.

    See? Three sentences was all I needed to sum up the issue.

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Throttling is another word for denial of service.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post

    The government isn't the issue here, it's the ISPs.
    Its the governments that have helped create the monopolies the ISP's have.

    Its the same in fields like health care, take care of special interests in the medical/drug field and then save the day by the problems created by their interference.

    More government interference will create more problems then they are claiming to solve which will lead to ........
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 07-24-2014 at 09:36 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Its the governments that have helped create the monopolies the ISP's have.

    Its the same in fields like health care, take care of special interests in the medical/drug field and then save the day by the problems created by their interference.

    More government interference will create more problems then they are claiming to solve which will lead to ........
    The government doesn't want net neutrality, so I don't know why you keep saying "what they claim." Especially considering the government, Obama's government at that, is claiming precisely what you are. That it's best to leave the ISPs unregulated. If it wanted net neutrality it would have happened already. The FCC doesn't need permission to reclassify ISPs, it can do it it's own damn self.

    You keep talking in abstracts, yet have provided no sources or facts to back up your claim.

    Here, let me do it for you.


    Monopolies: Monopolies are partially the fault of local governments and not at all the fault of the federal government. ISPs are also to blame, as they collude not to step on each others turf(source: the Verizon FiOS deal that halted the FiOS rollout).

    But that's not the only issue. Let's pretend for a second that we just completely deregulate every aspect of ISPs. Now they are able to do whatever they want. They don't have to share their infrastructure with competing companies. So now if you want to start a new ISP, you''re to need to buy hundreds to thousands of miles of cabling just to connect your small town. You're going to have to hire teams to dig and lay cables, you will need to buy dig rights, except the existing ISPs have non-compete clauses in their contracts that give them rights to lay cable. Good luck figuring out how to lay all that wire.

    Past that, you will need to gather hundreds of millions of dollars just to build the data servers that connect your customers with a backbone company.

    I could go on. Starting an ISP is nigh on impossible with the current regulations we have. If you deregulate even further, there will be no more competition AT ALL.

    If you want competition, then you absolutely need greater regulation.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am saying nothing more than they need to be out of it. I didn't even mention net neutrality at all.

    If you follow the post history my comment is in agreement to a simple true statement by WW.

    No other info is required.

    More regulation and competition of a free market are not compatible at all.

    Your last two sentences are contradicting.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 07-24-2014 at 12:46 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    To be clear I am saying those who want the government to enforce net neutrality are asking for more government and more government is always more violence and coercion.

    The government helps create the monopoly and the problem the solution isn't more government.

    People concentrate on the seen not the unseen. The free market can and will provide other options than worrying about digging and laying millions of dollars of lines when there could be other options is missing the larger picture.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    To be clear I am saying those who want the government to enforce net neutrality are asking for more government and more government is always more violence and coercion.

    The government helps create the monopoly and the problem the solution isn't more government.

    People concentrate on the seen not the unseen. The free market can and will provide other options than worrying about digging and laying millions of dollars of lines when there could be other options is missing the larger picture.
    All ya gotta do is go without interwebz service until another company shows up as a option. So, everybody boycott the only game in town until it is no longer the only game in town.

    The feds made them the only game in town and now we want the feds to...

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    All ya gotta do is go without interwebz service until another company shows up as a option. So, everybody boycott the only game in town until it is no longer the only game in town.

    The feds made them the only game in town and now we want the feds to...

    If there is another game in town, switch.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  24. #24
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    To be clear I am saying those who want the government to enforce net neutrality are asking for more government and more government is always more violence and coercion.

    The government helps create the monopoly and the problem the solution isn't more government.

    People concentrate on the seen not the unseen. The free market can and will provide other options than worrying about digging and laying millions of dollars of lines when there could be other options is missing the larger picture.
    What other option? Satellite? That's not a real option. Neither is mobile providers. You're still speaking in abstract ideals and hypotheticals.

    You claim you say all that's needed, that government created the monopolies and that deregulation will bust them up. Yet, I have mentioned various reasons why competition is not a reality and can not be a reality without regulation.

    You have exhibited vast ignorance regarding the complexities of an ISP and holding fast to your mantra that government is always evil. Still, you have yet to show how the regulations applied to cell carriers have harmed the cellphone market. Those are the very same regulations we want applied to ISPs. Those regulations have increased competition in the cellphone market and have helped to improve reception for smaller carriers by forcing cheaper roaming rates.

    So again, tell me why you oppose reclassifying ISPs as common carriers and why you support deregulation. This time please use facts backed up by reputable sources. I'll do the same.

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    LOL I moved to my current DSL Frontier from Wildblue for five years. It didn't take long for me to know more about the technology that I was using than the local reps or some interwebs wizzard.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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