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Thread: Cop's immunity pierced, duty implies liability for breach of that duty. WiSC

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    Cop's immunity pierced, duty implies liability for breach of that duty. WiSC

    The plaintiff took the position that because the law sets out rules for operation of emergency vehicles, the officer was performing a ministerial function - and failed to do it correctly -- when she drove through the red light. The officer says she was exercising her discretion and should therefore be immune.
    The law that exempts emergency drivers from the rules of the road still does does impose a "duty to drive or ride with due regard under the circumstances for the safety of all persons and do not protect the operator from the consequences of his or her reckless disregard for the safety of others."

    The "duty" phrase implies liability for breach of that duty, the majority found.

    The dissent, written by Justice Annette Ziegler, described the majority's holding as "officers are now under aministerial duty not to be involved in traffic accidents." Justices Ann Bradley and Patience Roggensack joined the dissent.

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/268603272.html

    Decision - http://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/D...f&seqNo=118165 403 KB 67 pages
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-25-2014 at 12:04 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The plaintiff took the position that because the law sets out rules for operation of emergency vehicles, the officer was performing a ministerial function - and failed to do it correctly -- when she drove through the red light. The officer says she was exercising her discretion and should therefore be immune.
    The law that exempts emergency drivers from the rules of the road still does does impose a "duty to drive or ride with due regard under the circumstances for the safety of all persons and do not protect the operator from the consequences of his or her reckless disregard for the safety of others."

    The "duty" phrase implies liability for breach of that duty, the majority found.

    The dissent, written by Justice Annette Ziegler, described the majority's holding as "officers are now under aministerial duty not to be involved in traffic accidents." Justices Ann Bradley and Patience Roggensack joined the dissent.

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/268603272.html

    Decision - http://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/D...f&seqNo=118165 403 KB 67 pages
    Thats why you always stop at red lights even with lights and sirens on.

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    Unfortunately many officers forget that lights/sirens do not give them the right away but only ask for it. Also unfortunate are modern recorded sirens that don't cut through traffic and radio noise like the old fashioned real ones did. Those 2 things alone make it surprising code 3 accidents don't happen more often.

    But I still fail to see how this thread has anything to do with open carry or RTKABA in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Also unfortunate are modern recorded sirens that don't cut through traffic and radio noise like the old fashioned real ones did.
    Amen. Our local fire department still uses the actual siren, and you can pick them up from a quarter-mile or more away, even with the windows up and the tunes on. You can't hear the local police and ambulance "whippoorwills" until they are practically on your back bumper...NOT good.
    Last edited by falcon1; 07-25-2014 at 05:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    [ ... ]But I still fail to see how this thread has anything to do with open carry or RTKABA in general.
    Yeah, it's tough not being moderator. It has to do with piercing immunity and being held accountable for misdeeds.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yeah, it's tough not being moderator. It has to do with piercing immunity and being held accountable for misdeeds.
    So, in other words, keeping on topic in these forums is not important. Got it!

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    I think that the minority dissent figured it out: don't drive like lunatics or your wallet will be lighter.

    duh!

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    Law REQUIRES the yielding of the right of way to emergency vehicles with emergency lights and sirens activated. Law don't allow those same emergency vehicles to simply KNOCK the vehicles that don't yield OFF THE ROAD!

    Immunity should be pierced in this case--- In my opinion!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    This thread is specific to Wisconsin and "usually" the administration and staff are benevolent and tolerant of what goes on in state sub-forums...as it should be.

    I try not to pull on the tail of a sleeping tiger.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    [ ... ] I try not to pull on the tail of a sleeping tiger.
    LOL Leave sleeping dogs lie.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Psst! There is both a connect to this state sub-forum and to the responsibility of first responders to mind the rules.

    I was once the first on the scene (witnessed the event) as I was directly behind the van.

    A small van with 3 EMs and a child proceeded through a green light and were hit broadside by a volunteer rescue squad vehicle that was running the red light at full speed. Killed people in the van - the adults were members of the same squad as the ambulance that hit them.

    Reporting that would be pertinent to the Virginia sub forum.........except that it happened about 25 years ago at Jeff Davis and Dundas Rd.
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    ...and a horrible time was had by all..

    ...40 years ago, we were told we had the right as officers to ignore all traffic signals at our discretion...
    ...and that we would bear full criminal and civil liability for same if things didn't go well...


    ...the fact that officers should be held responsible for their decisions and actions is very pertinent to exercise of our 2A rights...we've enough to be thinking about without those who are supposed to be law enforcement violating constitutional law...instead of upholding it...

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    Regular Member BennieH's Avatar
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    I am an Asst Chief & Safety Officer of our fire department. I am constantly reminding our operators that the law says "Due Regard" as far as all traffic laws are concerned. Actually got into an argument with deputy about what the law said. His Sargent set him straight. All lights and sirens (in Wisconsin both MUST be on) do is request the right a way and allow you to go the wrong way on a one way and park anywhere.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BennieH View Post
    I am an Asst Chief & Safety Officer of our fire department. I am constantly reminding our operators that the law says "Due Regard" as far as all traffic laws are concerned. Actually got into an argument with deputy about what the law said. His Sargent set him straight. All lights and sirens (in Wisconsin both MUST be on) do is request the right a way and allow you to go the wrong way on a one way and park anywhere.
    Same up here. Red lights still mean stop. It sucks to do when guys are screaming on the radio but the saying goes you don't do anyone any dead in a car accident on the way.

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    My understanding as an EMT in SW Missouri, in a land and time far, far, in the past....

    Law requires folks yield but it don't give the operator of the emergency vehicle the right to knock em off the side of the road!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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