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Thread: Seattle Police Officer asks me if I am allowed to open carry.

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    Seattle Police Officer asks me if I am allowed to open carry.

    On 25 July 2014, I was enjoying a walk along the waters of Puget Sound. I was walking along the beach trail of Lincoln Park (a trail I HIGHLY recommend) when this Seattle Police Officer flagged me down and asked me if I was allowed to open carry in a city park. I was unsure if he legitimately did not know the law or he was trying to play "cop games," so I simply informed him I know the laws. He seemed like a nice enough fellow. I get the impression he genuinely did not know the law and probably went and called a supervisor...which is exactly what he should have done, had this been the case.

    There are a NUMBER of signs all throughout the park that ban carry of a firearm. These signs are unenforceable and out-dated. I think they can lead to a lot of confusion with people.

    Video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6b7_1406352097

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueReflections View Post
    On 25 July 2014, I was enjoying a walk along the waters of Puget Sound. I was walking along the beach trail of Lincoln Park (a trail I HIGHLY recommend) when this Seattle Police Officer flagged me down and asked me if I was allowed to open carry in a city park. I was unsure if he legitimately did not know the law or he was trying to play "cop games," so I simply informed him I know the laws. He seemed like a nice enough fellow. I get the impression he genuinely did not know the law and probably went and called a supervisor...which is exactly what he should have done, had this been the case.

    There are a NUMBER of signs all throughout the park that ban carry of a firearm. These signs are unenforceable and out-dated. I think they can lead to a lot of confusion with people.

    Video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6b7_1406352097
    Seattle is under a court order to remove those signs. I believe they had 30 days.

    From the Seattle Times Feb 12, 2010

    The city now has 30 days to remove the 116 metal signs, which are about 1 by 1- feet in size and show a handgun inside a red circle, with a red line crossing out the gun. In all-capital letters there is the warning: "FIREARMS PROHIBITED."

    Assistant City Attorney Gary Keese said, "We will comply with the court order and are weighing with the mayor and City Council the options for appeal."
    Last edited by Right Wing Wacko; 07-26-2014 at 02:37 AM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Call parks and ask them to remove the signs.

    I like that park, never OC'd there though.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 07-26-2014 at 09:50 AM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    I just tell them to arrest me or get out of my face...

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Commander, why even entertain a discussion, especially if individuals try to quote rote memorization of a statute chapter and verse to an idiot savant while the individual doing the quoting does not having a clue on a background understanding of the subject matter.

    may i help you officer. repeat as necessary, then walk away.

    like the op stated, the individual called his handler for directions like a good savant.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    nawllll, i will give the nice officer the respect due in the performance of his duties but without them playing 20 questions about why this citizen is carrying a firearm. 'sides, it also sounds nice on my recorder

    the 'may i help you' query is repeated several times until there is some dialogue as to purpose of the nice officer's intruding into my privacy. i do not respond to their query about why i am carrying a firearm or depending on the locale, 'do you have id?' after several reiterations, the statement changes to 'am i free to go' and after several repeats i walk away.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Even if he was trying to play cop games why not provide him with useful information such as, "RCW 9.41.290 prohibits municipalities from enacting firearms restrictions more restrictive than state law which are almost exclusively contained in RCW section 9.41. Since there is no prohibition on open carry contained in RCW 9.41, and since parks and recreation areas are not prohibited places by RCW 9.41.300 - the answer to your question is yes, it is perfectly legal to open carry here - otherwise, I would not be doing it."
    I agree. There's a hundred reasons that officer may not know if its legal to carry in that park. To include the fact there is a sign as mentioned that says its not. And if he doesn't/didnt know then that's fine since he clearly didn't harass or even detain to OP based on his lack of knowledge.

    This was an oppurtiniry to do as you described to show multiple things....

    1) the guy with a gun is q very nice guy.
    2) he's a very smart guy and knows his s***
    3) he's nice enough to take a second and help someone out in general.
    4) garuanteed at the station or roll it would be "hey ran into one of those open carry guys. He was a real nice guy and knew all his stuff. He wasn't anything like the guys you see on YouTube."

    We try to maintain a positive polite image/interactions with the public so not the same with the local PD?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I agree. There's a hundred reasons that officer may not know if its legal to carry in that park. To include the fact there is a sign as mentioned that says its not. And if he doesn't/didnt know then that's fine since he clearly didn't harass or even detain to OP based on his lack of knowledge.

    This was an oppurtiniry to do as you described to show multiple things....

    1) the guy with a gun is q very nice guy.
    2) he's a very smart guy and knows his s***
    3) he's nice enough to take a second and help someone out in general.
    4) garuanteed at the station or roll it would be "hey ran into one of those open carry guys. He was a real nice guy and knew all his stuff. He wasn't anything like the guys you see on YouTube."

    We try to maintain a positive polite image/interactions with the public so not the same with the local PD?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    There is no reason in this state with a strong preemption statute and the media attention Seattle's laws received that a cop doesn't know. He is playing dumb or really is that dumb. So the reason boils down to one.

    There are many reasons to suspect the cop may be up to something though.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    and your dialogue of, let's see how did you put it: quote "...why not provide him with useful information...." has already opened the probative discussion i hear so many wish to avoid.

    as mentioned, i am being polite with my query awaiting to hear what the nice officer wants...as they tell me what their cards vice not the other way around.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    There is no reason in this state with a strong preemption statute and the media attention Seattle's laws received that a cop doesn't know. He is playing dumb or really is that dumb. So the reason boils down to one.

    There are many reasons to suspect the cop may be up to something though.
    He was probably just trying to engage RR into some conversation, to see if he is a gun rights activist or something else..... Really sounds like no harm was done to RR or anyone by this particular officer.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    He was probably just trying to engage RR into some conversation, to see if he is a gun rights activist or something else..... Really sounds like no harm was done to RR or anyone by this particular officer.
    So a fishing expedition?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    There is no reason in this state with a strong preemption statute and the media attention Seattle's laws received that a cop doesn't know. He is playing dumb or really is that dumb. So the reason boils down to one.

    There are many reasons to suspect the cop may be up to something though.
    Ok maybe he is "dumb" or didn't know. Again... A chance for the OP to rectify that and put forth a good image.

    Is every citizen that stops I store and says "hey is that legal?" Dumb? Do we tell them to kick rocks? No. We educate because it puts forth a good image.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ok maybe he is "dumb" or didn't know. Again... A chance for the OP to rectify that and put forth a good image.

    Is every citizen that stops I store and says "hey is that legal?" Dumb? Do we tell them to kick rocks? No. We educate because it puts forth a good image.

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    But is it legal for him to open carry there, so why even ask?

    So, you're saying that it's dumb to open carry?

    What if someone did not know? Would the cop have arrested him if he had said, "I do not know."

    That was not education, that was harassment.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    So a fishing expedition?
    Possibly. I don't think there's anything wrong with fishing so long as it's not a detention or non consensual stop. However I am not the officer, and my telepathy is down ths week so I don't know why the SPD officer did so.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    So a fishing expedition?
    Bingo ... I might tell a cop "Who the hell am I? The Shell Answer Man? Figure it out for yourself Detective Dumbass!"

    See, I believe an open and frank dialog with law enforcement ....

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    But is it legal for him to open carry there, so why even ask?

    So, you're saying that it's dumb to open carry?

    What if someone did not know? Would the cop have arrested him if he had said, "I do not know."

    That was not education, that was harassment.
    You misinterpreted what I said. He implied NOT knowing that open carrying is legal makes you dumb due to the media attention. So my question was do we call any citizen that walks up and asks "dumb" for not knowing? No. We educate.

    If that was "harassment" then he needs a new job because it was pretty lame.

    But to some a wave hello and "how are you today?" Requires a "am I being detained?????!!!! " response so maybe it was "harassment".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Ahh Primus. You just can't help it, can you? I've come to the conclusion that you're some sort of bitch cop. Like a meter maid, or a crossing guard, or whatever the b'tch-duty p'ssy-job thing is for cops. You want to be a real cop. You've got a badge, and everything. You even get to carry a gun. But you're stuck checking parking stickers, or something pathetic like that. You sad sack. You're clearly in love with the beat cops and want desperately to be one.

    No cop on the planet has any excuse whatsoever for not knowing what the gun laws are in their jurisdiction. Any cop who pretends otherwise is so god damn retarded that they think they can fool non-retards.

    Retards.
    Lol only if you knew....

    Good thing its a free country and yih can make "retarded" conclusions about others.

    I don't think less of you for it.... We need someone to wipe the trays at McDonalds....

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Lol only if you knew....
    I joined the internet in 1994, as dial-up internet was just gaining traction in the commercial market. Very quickly, I encountered the stereotypical "If you knew who I was, you wouldn't insult me" clown. All you're doing is convincing me that you're a bitch cop. Go check a parking meter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    You misinterpreted what I said. He implied NOT knowing that open carrying is legal makes you dumb due to the media attention. So my question was do we call any citizen that walks up and asks "dumb" for not knowing? No. We educate.

    If that was "harassment" then he needs a new job because it was pretty lame.

    But to some a wave hello and "how are you today?" Requires a "am I being detained?????!!!! " response so maybe it was "harassment".

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    Ya can't educate someone in the middle of a street or when going about doing your business. Its just going to result in argument most of the time. And I'm no teacher...my methods are to learn/teach the hard way.

    I've had people come up to me during legislative sessions and ask me questions ... there is an opportunity to educate.

    A person on the street saying "you can't carry that?" is not the venue for teaching in the traditional sense...first, if they think you are a felon (and they obviously do) they are fools for engaging with you and second they are too brainwashed to be helped most of the time.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-27-2014 at 02:53 AM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Ya can't educate someone in the middle of a street or when going about doing your business. Its just going to result in argument most of the time. And I'm no teacher...my methods are to learn/teach the hard way.

    I've had people come up to me during legislative sessions and ask me questions ... there is an opportunity to educate.

    A person on the street saying "you can't carry that?" is not the venue for teaching in the traditional sense...first, if they think you are a felon (and they obviously do) they are fools for engaging with you and second they are too brainwashed to be helped most of the time.
    Agreed. Some times are better to educate then others. But an attempt at it is still better then a missed opportunity.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    I joined the internet in 1994, as dial-up internet was just gaining traction in the commercial market. Very quickly, I encountered the stereotypical "If you knew who I was, you wouldn't insult me" clown. All you're doing is convincing me that you're a bitch cop. Go check a parking meter.
    Lol your stroking your own ego. The internet thing works both ways. I wouldn't bother with the "if you knew who I was you wouldn't insult me" card because your just some chump behind a keyboard.

    Hence.... I NEVER said " if you knew who I was you wouldn't insult me". I left it if you only knew. If you feel upset enough you need to ADD words onto it... Well again its a free country and you can do as you wish.

    And that's awesome on your internet "creds". Glad you've been around the block on the "net"...

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    {Seattle is under a court order to remove those signs. I believe they had 30 days.}

    I don't think that is going to happen. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Call parks and ask them to remove the signs.

    I like that park, never OC'd there though.
    The park is absolutely WONDERFUL!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Even if he was trying to play cop games why not provide him with useful information such as, "RCW 9.41.290 prohibits municipalities from enacting firearms restrictions more restrictive than state law which are almost exclusively contained in RCW section 9.41. Since there is no prohibition on open carry contained in RCW 9.41, and since parks and recreation areas are not prohibited places by RCW 9.41.300 - the answer to your question is yes, it is perfectly legal to open carry here - otherwise, I would not be doing it."
    I chose not to provide him with the information I pay him to already know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Commander, why even entertain a discussion, especially if individuals try to quote rote memorization of a statute chapter and verse to an idiot savant while the individual doing the quoting does not having a clue on a background understanding of the subject matter.

    may i help you officer. repeat as necessary, then walk away.

    like the op stated, the individual called his handler for directions like a good savant.

    ipse
    I am OK with this. He did not press the issue. If they want to be stars, I will allow them to be stars. I needed a new video anyway.

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