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Federal judge rules DC ban on gun carry rights unconstitutional

California Right To Carry

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Dec 21, 2013
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462
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United States
It is amazing how many morons think anything good is going to come out of the 90 day stay. A stay which Alan Gura wants in order to give DC time to enact a new law banning the Open Carry of handguns and of course requiring an expensive, burdensome permit to carry concealed. This is going to be a repeat of the Illinois fiasco. We started off with an injunction against the ban on carrying loaded firearms, including long guns, in public with a stay of the injunction. The NRA and SAF then lobbied the Illinois legislature to ban the Open Carry of firearms, which included a ban on the carrying of long guns, leaving a "shall issue" concealed carry permit scheme even worse than the may issue scheme in place in California.

Here is what the lead plaintiff, Palmer, had to say in Reason magazine about Open Carry:

"Palmer says now whatever way D.C. tries to manage or regulate the right to carry short of the total ban that's now off the table will be "a political decision as a matter of law." He doesn't see a core constitutional rights issue involved in open v. concealed carry. In fact, Palmer thinks that gun carry activists who "walk into Wal Mart with firearms displayed in ready-to-use mode are a disgrace. It's all about look at me, look at me." That sort of activism, Palmer says, "has not advanced the agenda of law abiding people exercising their rights" to self-defense outside the home."

Another of the Palmer plaintiffs, George Lyon, was more succinct about SAF's end game according to Fox News "[Lyon] urged Mayor Vincent Gray, a Democrat, and the Democrat-controlled City Council to “swiftly enact a concealed carry law..."


As for me, concealed carry is of no use, I don't carry a purse.

"[A] right to carry arms openly: "This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defence of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations."" District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783 - Supreme Court (2008) at 2809.

"Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues." District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783 - Supreme Court (2008) at 2816.

"We therefore hold that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment right recognized in Heller." McDonald v. City of Chicago, Ill., 130 S. Ct. 3020 - Supreme Court (2010) at 3050.

"[T]he right of the people to keep and bear arms (art. 2) is not infringed by laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons..." Robertson v. Baldwin, 165 US 275 - Supreme Court (1897) at 282


Charles Nichols – President of California Right To Carry
http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
..."Constitutional carry" seems to be the law in DC until the big shots in the "gun rights' movement opened their pie holes and advocated for permission carry. DC did in fact get it all, in one fell swoop, and now the big shots in the "gun rights' movement want to step back away from this fact...
What "big shots" are you referring to besides Gura?

Do you have links to back up your assertion?
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
The stay is a fact.

"Constitutional carry" seems to be the law in DC until the big shots in the "gun rights' movement opened their pie holes and advocated for permission carry. DC did in fact get it all, in one fell swoop, and now the big shots in the "gun rights' movement want to step back away from this fact.

When the Chief Poo Poo says to the beat cops to not bust gun carriers it cannot be taken any other way. Constitutional carry was in DC for what a couple of days.

+1 Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intransigent an opponent as gun-grabbers.

+1 We want our gun rights, oh wait you mean everyone can carry.....hold on....
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
+1 Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intransigent an opponent as gun-grabbers.

Very quotable way of putting it. Compromise if failure on the installment plan... Yep. I'll stick that one in my back pocket for later use.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
it IS a victory no matter how you look at it. going from no carry period to shall issue because of a court is a huge deal, and challenges to gun convictions are now being dismissed and good case law is being brought up in IL that can be used to challenge the worst of the new law.

if you like being angry just to have something to gripe about I guess everything to you is a defeat....

Calling two steps forward and one back a victory is a little naive. The people got shafted not matter how you look at it.

Edit: The victory was had, then stolen, and replaced with a fake.
 
Last edited:

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Calling two steps forward and one back a victory is a little naive. The people got shafted not matter how you look at it.

Edit: The victory was had, then stolen, and replaced with a fake.

It is a victory for paid privilege~it is big setback for actual rights. A few people will be able to conceal, and they will still be seen as victims~whoopee.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
I think D.C. will push the envelope on obstructions (permitting fees, waiting periods, red tape, etc.) and it will take further slap-downs after additional litigation to see David's vision finally realized.

I think the city council will try that. In the meantime, as for the law-enforcers...

From Emily Miller's Twitter feed.

Emily Miller ‏@EmilyMiller 1h: STUNNING DEVELOPMENT: DC Police Chief Lanier just told force not to arrest a person who can legally carry a gun in DC or any state.

Emily Miller ‏@EmilyMiller 1h: More -- DC police chief using guidance from AG -- grants full reciprocity for all open and concealed carry from others states.

Emily Miller ‏@EmilyMiller 44m: Only gun arrests now in DC can be DC residents with unregistered guns and non-residents who are prohibited under federal laws.

Thus, as it stands right now, I can legally carry a firearm in Washington D.C., both open carry as well as concealed carry.

As for all the nay-sayers, you seem to be forgetting that D.C. had a TOTAL ban on firearms carried outside the home. As of right now, there's NO ban.

City Council Chairman Phil Mendelson spouts the usual nonsense about needing to "be more heavily restricted than any place else in the nation," while totally forgetting two key FACTS:

1. When law-abiding citizens are allowed to be armed, crime DROPS. When the U.K. banned handguns, crime nearly tripled. In every state in the union, when gun laws are relaxed, crime drops.

2. All the gun laws in the world do not stop either criminals, the criminally insane, or terrorists. They could care less about D.C.'s stupid, un-Constitutional laws.
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
No, you can't. They were granted a 90 day stay yesterday, so for the next 89 days, things are back as they were before the ruling.

not necessarily....

the judge ruled rather vehemently that the law was 100% unconstitutional. but now he's allowing it to stay for 90 more days?

a unconstitutional law is just that: unconstitutional.

LE has no authority on this matter in DC right now.
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
Question about the DC stay

Legal question… I understand if a law is ruled “overly broad” or “poorly written” or “open to interpretation” and is ruled unenforceable until the legislators can correct the mistakes or re-write the law that a stay in the ruling may be appropriate. But, I thought when a law is found to be unconstitutional that it is null and void, as if it had never been written. If so, how can a judge stay (keep it active and “on the books”) an unconstitutional law?

Is the judge's ruling on it being unconstitutional make it void immediately, or is it only unconstitutional when the court process is completed, i.e. the full appeals process (possibly up to SCOTUS) is complete?

-----

16Am Jur 2d., Sec. 256:
“The general rule is that a unconstitutional statute, whether Federal or State, though having the form and name of law as in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose since unconstitutionality dates from the enactment and not merrily from the date of the decision so braining it. An unconstitutional law in legal contemplation is as inoperative as if it never had been passed. Such a statute lives a question that is purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not ever been enacted. No repeal of an enactment is necessary, since an unconstitutional law is void. The general principles follows that it imposes no duty, converse no rights, creates no office, bestows no power of authority on anyone, affords no protection and justifies no acts performed under it.[snip]
 

Yard Sale

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Feb 13, 2010
Messages
708
Location
Northern Nevada, ,
He's staying his order for DC not to enforce the laws. If his order were in effect, and they enforced the laws, they would be violating his order and in contempt of court. Constitutional issues and deprivation of civil rights issues would not be relevant to the stay or order, but to the ruling which prompted the order. The ruling takes away their qualified immunity.
 
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