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Thread: D.C granted 90 day stay (until October 22nd) on Palmer vs. DC ruling

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Thumbs down D.C. granted 90 day stay (until October 22nd) on Palmer vs. DC ruling

    A federal judge on Tuesday put on hold his decision invalidating the District’s long-standing ban on carrying handguns in public places.

    The judge’s stay, in effect for 90 days, gives city officials and D.C. police officers some breathing room to respond to a ruling that overturned the District’s primary gun-control law.

    Doxie McCoy, a spokeswoman for D.C. Mayor Vincent C. Gray (D), said the stay “gives us time to pause, and to act.” She said the mayor will continue to work with the D.C. Council “in terms of what legislation we need to put in. This is certainly welcome news.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...981_story.html
    Last edited by FMCDH; 07-29-2014 at 03:51 PM. Reason: format

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    I call: crap-ola

    My call don't count doh

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    Another article on the stay

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/07...tay-to-dc.html

    This stay is explicitly for the District to craft legislation.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/07...tay-to-dc.html

    This stay is explicitly for the District to craft legislation.
    They had 5 years to craft legislation, but insted they put their heads in the sand.

    "Stay, they dont need no stinken Stay"

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCDH View Post
    They had 5 years to craft legislation, but insted they put their heads in the sand.
    Agree! I am shocked the judge gave them a stay, and that SAF did not fight it. Well OC was short lived in DC they will never see it again, and it will be very difficult to get a license in DC. The requirements for just owning a firearm in DC are already stiffer than some states for concealed permit.

    They will draft a very constraining ordinance knowing full well that it will take years to get back to the courts. And by then the Hillary administration will have had a chance to restructure the courts.

    This was a chance, a slim one for us to prove that lawful unregistered carry is safe and beneficial.
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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    SNIP...
    This was a chance, a slim one for us to prove that lawful unregistered carry is safe and beneficial.
    Yea, that's the very last thing D.C. wants.

    The very thought that "blood won't run in the streets" while people carry peaceably around the district makes them piss their pants. That's one test case that the antis don't ever want to see the light of day.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Agree! I am shocked the judge gave them a stay, and that SAF did not fight it. Well OC was short lived in DC they will never see it again, and it will be very difficult to get a license in DC. The requirements for just owning a firearm in DC are already stiffer than some states for concealed permit.

    They will draft a very constraining ordinance knowing full well that it will take years to get back to the courts. And by then the Hillary administration will have had a chance to restructure the courts.

    This was a chance, a slim one for us to prove that lawful unregistered carry is safe and beneficial.
    One of the petitioners and the two Alans,,,"the Winners!", actually Proposed a 90 day Stay to the court!!!
    Soooo it not hard to believe that the district asked for the stay, or for the court to grant it!

    We will never know if the court would have granted a stay if the winners had objected.
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    One of the petitioners and the two Alans,,,"the Winners!", actually Proposed a 90 day Stay to the court!!!
    Soooo it not hard to believe that the district asked for the stay, or for the court to grant it!

    We will never know if the court would have granted a stay if the winners had objected.


    The way the 90 day order is written is actually a very good order for gun owners.

    Those that would suppress our civil rights were always going to get some sort of stay either from Scullin or from the Circuit Court. 90 days (instead of 180 days) and only for writing constitutional laws is a good thing. Not giving DC grounds to appeal the stay at this time is another good thing.

    Remember this order is not a general stay, but a stay so that the district may draft constitutional law if they so choose. The district has 45 days to appeal the ruling. If DC appeals the ruling, the stay goes away. So the district has until September 9 to appeal the ruling. If they do appeal, the DC Council will not be in session until 15 September. So it would appear that in order to appeal, the district would have another period under which constitutional carry would apply.

    Gura is smart. He is playing to win. Appearing reasonable and not backing the decider into a corner is good when dealing with a single district court judge. It also sets a tone for the length of stays in the future - 90 days instead of 180 days.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Yes, I think Gura foxed 'em on this. He is playing a deep game

    Gura is smart. He is playing to win. Appearing reasonable and not backing the decider into a corner is good when dealing with a single district court judge. It also sets a tone for the length of stays in the future - 90 days instead of 180 days.

    I was against a stay at first, but I see how Gura finessed it. Instead of the appeals court granting a stay of undetermined length pending appeal, Gura managed a 90 day stay for them to craft legistalion, and only 45 days - all of which the council is in recess for - to craft an appeal.

    We win they lose...

    We need to be ready with picnic plans if they choose to appeal in 45 days.

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    90 days will be just long enough for D.C. to write a law that is just like what Illinois produce in a similar situation: a law that allows people to get licenses, but has so many places off-limits, that it is effectively provides a license to carry NO WHERE.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44Brent View Post
    90 days will be just long enough for D.C. to write a law that is just like what Illinois produce in a similar situation: a law that allows people to get licenses, but has so many places off-limits, that it is effectively provides a license to carry NO WHERE.
    Does "within 1000 feet of any government building" sound about right for what D.C. will try and pull?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCDH View Post
    Does "within 1000 feet of any government building" sound about right for what D.C. will try and pull?
    You forgotten other part----
    Or of any public or private property!
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    Gura is smart. He is playing to win. Appearing reasonable and not backing the decider into a corner is good when dealing with a single district court judge. It also sets a tone for the length of stays in the future - 90 days instead of 180 days.

    I was against a stay at first, but I see how Gura finessed it. Instead of the appeals court granting a stay of undetermined length pending appeal, Gura managed a 90 day stay for them to craft legistalion, and only 45 days - all of which the council is in recess for - to craft an appeal.

    We win they lose...

    We need to be ready with picnic plans if they choose to appeal in 45 days.
    Yes, but more likely than not if they appeal wouldn't the court they appeal to grant a continuance of the stay?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Let's see~~it will be legal to carry in your home with a permit as well as registration. Yea this went down the poop hole fast, there is no way the DC council will not go for broke, just like Illinios did.

    If the people had the time of the stay to OC before a ordinance could be written OC could have become embedded to the public and the courts that it is safe, and makes sense. I am stunned that Alan did not fight this stay, this smells of the NRA meddling.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-30-2014 at 10:00 AM.
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    Judge: Mr. Gura, ya gots any beef with me granting a stay?
    Gura (shudda said): Uh, yeah judge, I gots a beef wiff da stay, DC has been stayin since Heller, generally speaking, and specifically since 2009...DC has stayed enough, no stay for DC!!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    DC has 90 days to write legislation, but only 30 days from the date or the order, to file a notice of appeal to the Circuit. My uneducated guess is if that happens, Sculin will cancel his stay, the ruling will be reinstated. and DC will ask the Appeals court for a stay while the appeal goes through the system.

    IANAL

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    i thought any "license scheme" that DC comes up with has to pass the constitutional muster this judge set forth? which described "bear" as being concealed or unconcealed. and off limits places as inside government buildings or schools.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    i thought any "license scheme" that DC comes up with has to pass the constitutional muster this judge set forth? which described "bear" as being concealed or unconcealed. and off limits places as inside government buildings or schools.
    Correct and good point. This keeps getting lost in the sauce though.



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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Gura filed opposition to granting of the stay. Can't attach the all pdf's because 1 file is too big. 3 of 4 attached. Main is the actual motion to oppose. others are ancilliary documents

    interesting quotes from Chief Lanier in it

    Indeed, Defendant Lanier has offered that the Court’s decision “would have a relatively
    minimal impact on street crime or her department’s ability to police neighborhoods and lock up
    dangerous criminals who are found carrying guns. ‘Law-abiding citizens that register firearms, that
    follow the rules, are not our worry.’” Defendant Lanier’s concern appears to remain 5 the security of
    sensitive places. “My one focus, really, now is going to be security of our dignitaries in those really
    highly sensitive large events.” Id.

    Moreover,

    Lanier . . . said fears were overstated that the end of the carry ban would impede everyday
    policing by putting thousands of additional guns on the street. Lanier also played down
    concerns that dangerous criminals could go free if officers cannot detain and charge them for
    carrying a weapon in public. Criminals, she said, typically do not possess properly registered
    firearms, meaning they can be charged under other laws not challenged by Scullin’s ruling.
    Id. Responding to a statement that D.C. police might require changing their “mindset” to
    accommodate legal civilian gun-carrying (thereby aligning their “mindset” with those of police
    throughout the United States),

    Lanier said Wednesday that is “not a big shift” . . . “We deal with concealed carry every
    single day in this city, I don’t care what anybody tells you,” she said, citing the large number
    of plainclothes local and federal law enforcement officers. “Legal guns, legally carried,
    there’s hundreds of them out there in this city every single day . . . . That’s not a big training
    gap for us.”


    I think she should have kept her mouth closed.
    Last edited by swinokur; 08-04-2014 at 06:41 PM.

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    "I think she should have kept her mouth closed."


    I disagree, swinokur.

    She was honest which is rare for a politician or a political appointee. I've seen Lanier at work on other issues and she always leans toward the side of professionalism. She's severely handcuffed (pun intended) by her political leaders and that's what makes her appear biased.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    My point was she didn't help DC's position and argument that CCW is bad and won't work in DC.

    She may have been honest but it won't help the city's defense if it decides to appeal.

    She more or less admitted there is no reason from a law enforcement perspective to not allow CCW.

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    The motion is DENIED.
    I teared up a little, reading that.

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    swinokur,

    I completely understood why you said that and totally agree with you litigation wise, what she said will affect their chances at an appeal.

    On the other hand she deserves our support for her honesty. Her responsibility as Chief Of Police is public safety, not to ensure that her political leaders win a case on appeal. I'm sure she will receive some sort of repercussions for saying it but she said it anyway.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I have no issues with Chief Lanier. She's a political appointee after all. Compared to some of the clowns who preceded her (Larry Soulsby for one) she's done a pretty good job. Not great but not awful either.

    The only bad thing for her is her honesty which may harm, DC's case on appeal.

    I have no problem with her stating the facts of the matter. That's what non politicians do. Very refershing as a matter of fact. I think as someone mentione with a new Mayor in place after the elections, her career might be at an end in DC, so maybe she feels no compunction to stick to the city's talking points.

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