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Thread: Amendment 5

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    Amendment 5

    Can someone explain to me what exactly this is saying? To me, it seems like if it passes then Missouri will have constitutional carry which is good because we as citizens shouldn't need to pay to protect ourselves and on rare occasions others. Is that what the bill is stating?

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    For those unfamiliar with 2014 Amendment 5

    http://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_Righ...August_2014%29
    The official ballot title and fair ballot language read as follows:[5]
    “ Official Ballot Title:

    Shall the Missouri Constitution be amended to include a declaration that the right to keep and bear arms is a unalienable right and that the state government is obligated to uphold that right?

    State and local governmental entities should have no direct costs or savings from this proposal. However, the proposal’s passage will likely lead to increased litigation and criminal justice related costs. The total potential costs are unknown, but could be significant.

    Fair Ballot Language:

    A "yes" vote will amend the Missouri Constitution to expand the right to keep and bear arms to include ammunition and related accessories for such arms. This amendment also removes the language that states the right to keep and bear arms does not justify the wearing of concealed weapons. This amendment does not prevent the legislature from limiting the rights of certain felons and certain individuals adjudicated as having a mental disorder.

    A "no"; [sic] vote will not amend the Missouri Constitution regarding arms, ammunition, and accessories for such arms.

    If passed, this measure will have no impact on taxes.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-30-2014 at 10:37 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    I've read that already and it seems to me like it's going to do away with CCW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostile314 View Post
    Can someone explain to me what exactly this is saying? To me, it seems like if it passes then Missouri will have constitutional carry which is good because we as citizens shouldn't need to pay to protect ourselves and on rare occasions others. Is that what the bill is stating?
    I think assuming that would be unwise. But it is a move in the right direction. The money phrase in the amendment is strict scrutiny. If you learn what that means, you'll understand what is going on.

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    I found this anti-progressive argument persuasive .

    The Constitutional[sic erat scriptum] Party of Missouri opposes the measure for the following reasons:
    “ 1. The very first line reads “That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and accessories typical to the normal function of such arms ………..” What is a normal function? There is no definition of “normal function” in state statutes. This will be subject to future interpretation.

    2. “The rights guaranteed by this section shall be unalienable”. (Unalienable rights are rights which cannot be given away or given up.) The next line reads “Any restriction on these rights shall be subject to strict scrutiny.” So these rights are unalienable UNLESS they are restricted? In which case the restrictions will be subject to strict scrutiny. Who will impose restrictions? Who will provide the scrutiny for said restrictions?

    3. “Nothing in this amendment shall be construed to prevent the passage of general laws by the General Assembly that limit such rights for convicted violent felons or persons adjudged to be a danger to self or others as the result of a mental disorder or mental infirmity”. While many will see this language as reasonable, allowing government to determine who can possess firearms is fraught with unseen and unknown danger. Historical cases of governments using “mental illness” as an excuse to detain and imprison its citizens are many.[4] <<See the psychologization of dissent>>

    —Constitution Party of Missouri,
    Only The Constitution Party represents America's conservative Country Class against the progressive Ruling Party of republicans, democrats and libertarian know-nothings, progressives all.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-30-2014 at 11:02 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Only The Constitution Party represents America's conservative Country Class against the progressive Ruling Party of republicans, democrats and libertarian know-nothings, progressives all.
    So what are you trying to say the Constitutional Party is?
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    So what are you trying to say the Constitutional Party is?
    Gotta remember that Nightmare has a penchant for slinging esoteric data indiscriminately. Unfortunately many non-combatants are harmed by esoteric data that has been slung indiscriminately.

    The mission of the Constitution Party is to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity through the election, at all levels of government, of Constitution Party candidates who will uphold the principles of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights. It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions.

    http://www.constitutionparty.com/the...ion-statement/
    So, what happens when you have like minded politicians at all levels of government? This ain't my first rodeo on this subject.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Hey Folks.......election day tomorrow.....remember to vote for Amendment 5.

    Gracias!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

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    Regular Member mechanicworkman's Avatar
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    I am out of the country and having trouble accessing the sos.mo.gov website. is there any updates on the unofficial results of this? When someone finds some can they please make a quick post and let me know?
    -----------------------------------------------------------
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    Yep

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Very preliminary...

    Amendment - 5 - Establish Right to Bear Arms - Ballot Issue
    14 of 3898 Precincts Reporting - 0%

    Yes 509 74%
    No 175 26%

    Source: KMBC.com
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

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    Damn, we've clearly won!

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    65 percent right now t link to results way down at the bottom

    http://enr.sos.mo.gov/Enrnet/Default.aspx
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Fox 2 News in STL is loath to mention Amendment 5. 1 and 7, often repeated.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Constitutional Amendment 5 569 of 3898 Precincts Reported
    YES 128,706 69.278%
    NO 57,075 30.722%
    Total Votes: 185,781
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  16. #16
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    Here's a good site to follow it:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/e...CTION=POLITICS

    I've not heard any projections.

    [0QUOTE=Firearms Iinstuctor;2080319]Constitutional Amendment 5 569 of 3898 Precincts Reported
    YES 128,706 69.278%
    NO 57,075 30.722%
    Total Votes: 185,781[/QUOTE]

  17. #17
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    I still don't get EXACTLY what this amendment will do...Will it make Missouri a constitutional carry state??

  18. #18
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Amendment - 5 - Establish Right to Bear Arms - Ballot Issue
    2528 of 3898 Precincts Reporting - 65%

    Name Votes Vote %
    Yes 446,313 64%
    No 250,447 36%
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

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    so if the constitutional amendment number 5 passes how long until it will be come in effectand will this mean open carry with the state preemption
    Last edited by Renegadez; 08-05-2014 at 10:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegadez View Post
    so if the constitutional amendment number 5 senses how long until it will be come in effectand will this mean open carry with the state preemption
    Immediately, and probably after a few court cases. We just need a volunteer with more money than sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Immediately, and probably after a few court cases. We just need a volunteer with more money than sense.

    so tomorrow morning we can you open carry all across the state of Missouri. if the amendment passes is that what you are sayingp

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    Not at all. I'm saying that is likely what it means, but it is going to go through the courts for sure. You better have a barrel stuffed with fifty dollar bills for your legal bills.

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    so even voting this amendment to the constitution can still be challenged in court s*** is there any way to ever win in this thing and get our rights restored or what

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechanicworkman View Post
    I am out of the country and having trouble accessing the sos.mo.gov website. is there any updates on the unofficial results of this? When someone finds some can they please make a quick post and let me know?
    Looks like it can't lose now, just a few precincts outstanding, and the ones that are outstanding are very likely to vote for the amendment anyway. I think we can call this one in the bag.

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    95% Reporting, it's going to pass by almost 2 -1 margin.

    Constitutional Amendment 5 (Right to Bear Arms)
    95% OF PRECINCTS REPORTING

    Yes 490,565 66%

    No 249,755 34%

    I think the people of Missouri have spoken loud and clear! Would an override of SB 656 in Sept. be necessary now?

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