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Amendment 5

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I live in St. Louis, while not the city A.K.A. urban but north county which is considered the suburbs according to city dwellers and I even contacted the St. Louis county police department about open carry in unincorporated St. Louis county that although there isn't any ordinance against it that they don't recommend it because it frightens the people. now I'm all for open carry and it seems like people these days are doing stupid things like carrying long guns which in my opinion is stupid because if you're not in a hunting area a.k.a a populated area, then what's the point of bringing attention to yourself. The only thing that does is bring unwanted attention to yourself. Now hopefully this bill allows state wide unregulated open carry. So I don't see how this law will endanger the police officers in St. Louis city. We need laws that will allow us to defend ourselves from officers.
Yeah, long gun carriers are evil! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why do they NEED to open carry long guns?? Better yet, why do people NEED to open carry handguns?? ALL open carry people just draw attention to themselves! Don't they realize that guns scare people????

Oh my!! :shocker:
 

Hostile314

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Saint Louis COunty
Yeah, long gun carriers are evil! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why do they NEED to open carry long guns?? Better yet, why do people NEED to open carry handguns?? ALL open carry people just draw attention to themselves! Don't they realize that guns scare people????

Oh my!! :shocker:

Where did you see where I said that long gun carriers are evil? They're not evil, but there's no point are carrying a rifle in a populated city while just walking down the street. A handgun is efficient in protecting yourself in a populated area. Yes all guns scare some people but I've been to the Marines and carried a rifle for long distance engagements and a handgun for close ones. Open carrying a rifle is much more alarming then open carrying a handgun. I don't believe any restriction on gun rights or rights in general should be tolerated but still it's the fact that it's plain stupid open carry a rifle. Now I believe that if you have land and can see trouble coming then that's acceptable. At very close range, a rifle round will cause collateral damage. Yes, they are more effective than handgun rounds, but at the same time the muzzle velocity at MOST self defense distances will make that round zip through the target like butter and not transfer majority of its energy therefore not stopping the target. Even when I was in combat in the middle east, the 5.56 round at certain distances wasn't effective even if they were hit the right places.

But to answer your question about why do people NEED to carry handguns. People need to protect themselves from criminals and a rifle is not for self defense distances
 
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Hostile314

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Saint Louis COunty

Yes, of course. Everybody ought to be just like you. They should think like you, act like you, like what you like, dress like you and above all, carry a gun like you. Well, maybe some don't like the way you act, think, dress or your manner of carry. Do those people get to decide what is best for you or are you the final decision maker for everybody? The whole point is that everybody gets to make their own decisions and act the way they want to act. Freedom means being able to do as you please, as long as your actions are within the law. Do you ask the St. Louis County Police what to have for dinner? What business is it of theirs what somebody carries? Their job is to enforce the law, not make recommendations on legal activities for everybody. Do you call them every day to ask if its OK with them for you to drive your car that day? Traffic might be heavy that day and they might prefer that you stay home. Do you ask them what to wear each day? No police dept. or any other part of the government has any business getting into our legal activities.

No I'm not saying that everybody should dress, act, or carry like I do. No, I'm not asking the police the permission to do anything. Yes, their job is to enforce the law and you're right they don't have any say on what we do in out daily lives but that's besides the point. Explain to me what carrying a rifle which I carried in war and seen the ballistic effects of rifle rounds at self defense distances would a civilian need a rifle for doing daily activities.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Apparently time for a rule reminder

(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control and lack of trigger guard coverage, we cannot support long gun open carry.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
 

Hostile314

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Saint Louis COunty
Need has nothing to do with it. We have a "Bill of RIGHTS", not a "Bill of Needs". Does a black person NEED to sit in the front of the bus, does any person NEED to be a Christian, does a newspaper NEED to publish an article critical of the President, does a person NEED to have privacy in his own home. None of us has any business telling any free person what legal activity they should be engaging in. If you have to prove that you NEED to do something before you can do it, you are not free. Freedom is meaningless if it only applies to the things that everybody likes. Some people may not like blacks sitting in the front of the bus, but they have a right to do it. Some people may not like gays getting married, but they have the same rights as anybody else. Carrying a firearm is no different. I once had a city mayor tell me that he supported the 2nd Amendment, but thought that anybody that was OC was only trying scare people. I think you are just as wrong as he was, and I don't think that either of you show much support for the 2nd Amendment. If we start eliminating all the different things that different people find objectionable about carrying a gun there will be nothing left. You don't like long gun carry, some don't like OC, others don't like magazines over 10 rounds, some don't like semi automatics. Soon we'll be able to only carry concealed, single shot, BB guns, if we are in our own bathrooms with the door locked and the shades drawn. That will then be the definition of freedom.

Now that I think about it fully, you're right. People have a right to do whatever they want.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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Location
White Oak Plantation

Richieg150

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
432
Location
Show Me State
Amendment 5 is not a bill/law, it is the "new" RTKBA provision in the state constitution. It affects laws currently on the books.

Read at your own risk.

That article is so full of misguided, false, incorrect, biased, what ever you want to call it..... information that it is ridiculous....the really scary part it that it was quoted by a police chief......Sam Dotson says Amendment 5 will make it easier for criminals to possess guns and harder for authorities to prosecute them.

It easy to put out this kind of garbage..... but they never have any true hard evidence to back it up..... other than THEIR personal opinions..... who some take as the gospel truth..... GOSH..... if the police chief said it, IT MUST BE TRUE.......because he would never lie or distort the truth..... based on his personal opinions or in trying to cover up something....
 

alanspfdmo

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
14
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Amendment 5 voting breakdown by County/Precinct

Would someone be kind enough to post a link that shows a breakdown of total votes of each of the counties/precincts for Amendment 5. Thank you

County
YES
NO
Boone
12,745
14,546
Kansas City
12,145
25,167
St. Louis
77,050
110,059
St. Louis City
10,011
24,263

The only four that had more 'no' than 'yes' votes. All others were 2 or 3 to 1 for. The votes indicate that these four areas are the unknown factor.

A St. Charles senator sunk us last veto session.

St. Charles was 65/35 for this go around. Ya would think that this sentiment is not a recent manifestation...:rolleyes:

A certain senator from St. Charles is certainly not doing the work his constituents want done.

So, how many "I voted for it before I voted against it" politicians will we have this next veto session.
 

kcgunfan

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
1,002
Location
KC
Did not look to be as of yesterday. I did check the constitution, and it may be that it is already in effect, but don't take my word for it. My county has supplied official results to the SoS.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

kcgunfan

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
1,002
Location
KC
Still showing as unofficial results, constitution hasn't been changed. What do you plan on doing differently one it is changed?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Contact the MO Atty Gen to see if they will issue an opinion. Not that it is worth anything, but it may give an idea of what some Prosecuting Attys might lean too.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Contact the MO Atty Gen to see if they will issue an opinion. Not that it is worth anything, but it may give an idea of what some Prosecuting Attys might lean too.
Will the MO AG initiate a formal opinion as a result of being contacted by a commoner?

In VA that will only happen as a result of such a request from a member or the legislature or judiciary.
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Will the MO AG initiate a formal opinion as a result of being contacted by a commoner?

In VA that will only happen as a result of such a request from a member or the legislature or judiciary.

More than likely not; however, with this amendment and it's language, there is a slight possibility.

I've suggested to some politicians, I would appreciate their request in trying to get one. There may be a some already planning to request it. I know in the special session in September, they are working to over-ride the veto of SB656.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
More than likely not; however, with this amendment and it's language, there is a slight possibility.

I've suggested to some politicians, I would appreciate their request in trying to get one. There may be a some already planning to request it. I know in the special session in September, they are working to over-ride the veto of SB656.
it's = it is
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
AG's duties and responsibilities are usually specified in law. An AG liable to demands from citizens would have time for nothing else however well staffed.

Nothing new.....the populous can request an opinion from the AG. The AG is not obligated nor required to provide one to the people. The law defines pretty much who can expect a response to a request. Hence, why I stated I have contacted some legislators to help with a request. If the populous was entitled to receive a response, the AG couldn't have enough attorneys on staff to meet demand.
 
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