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Thread: Illinois just refused me a permit to carry -- simply because I am out of state in CT

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    Illinois just refused me a permit to carry -- simply because I am out of state in CT

    That don't seem right under the court opinion in DC this week.


    And I have no appeal rights either to the denial.


    That's not good news for the state....

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    That don't seem right under the court opinion in DC this week.


    And I have no appeal rights either to the denial.


    That's not good news for the state....
    i'm surprised you bothered trying to get one for starters. Secondly I thought IL recognized other states licences? Pretty sure I saw something to that effect on one of the threads here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    i'm surprised you bothered trying to get one for starters. Secondly I thought IL recognized other states licences? Pretty sure I saw something to that effect on one of the threads here.
    IL does not recognize a CT permit ... and does not allow a CT resident to get a IL permit under any circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    i'm surprised you bothered trying to get one for starters. Secondly I thought IL recognized other states licences? Pretty sure I saw something to that effect on one of the threads here.
    I course I'll be carrying, like I did years ago when it was "illegal" to carry.

    And no, IL does not recognize my state's permit process as being = to theirs.

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    IL does accept other states licences. You just can't carry outside your vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYT View Post
    IL does accept other states licences. You just can't carry outside your vehicle.
    What good is that, if true?
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-31-2014 at 07:58 PM.

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    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...F/098-0063.pdf

    (e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from
    transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in
    Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:
    (1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a
    firearm under federal law;
    (2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the
    laws of his or her state or territory of residence; and
    (3) is not in possession of a license under this Act.
    If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended,
    he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or
    locked container within the vehicle in accordance with
    subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Now, now, JTHunter - you'll only confuse him with the facts.
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    Unless you are from Hawaii,New Mexico,S.Carolina or Virginia you can not apply for a concealed carry license in IL,and IL does not recognize any other states license,except in vehicle only.We just started receiving our resident licenses around the beginning of March this year.We are working on getting better laws here,but it will take time.Nice to meet you all.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Rulings in the DC Circuit don't apply anywhere but DC

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    Illinois just refused me a permit to carry -- simply because I am out of stat...

    I'm in the process of applying for IL CCW Instructor.

    ISP informed me via phone that as long as I have my LiveScan in IL, by an ISP certified vendor, and include a copy of my MD permit, that should fulfill all the requirements as an out of state instructor applicant.

    I'm still wondering;
    1. Why I can't submit ink prints taken by a LEO
    2. What law or regulation forbids LiveScan from crossing state lines and why ?
    3. How I can teach IL CCW, but not be able to get an IL CCW or carry there?

    Any feedback appreciated.
    Last edited by Cypherpunk; 08-03-2014 at 07:40 PM. Reason: more info

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    Unless they have changed the rules, you will be required to have a IL CCL to be an instructor, and since Maryland is not on the list of approved states, you most likely will not qualify. had Missouri instructors get pulled because they are not in an approved state. There are a few instructors that appear to be out of state, but actually live in IL.

    IL doesn't except ink prints for the CCL, I don't think there is any law against livescan across state lines, I think it has to do something with the required coding.
    Last edited by RANDYT; 08-03-2014 at 07:45 PM.

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    Illinois just refused me a permit to carry -- simply because I am out of stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYT View Post
    Unless they have changed the rules, you will be required to have a IL CCL to be an instructor, and since Maryland is not on the list of approved states, you most likely will not qualify. had Missouri instructors get pulled because they are not in an approved state. There are a few instructors that appear to be out of state, but actually live in IL.

    IL doesn't except ink prints for the CCL, I don't think there is any law against livescan across state lines, I think it has to do something with the required coding.
    I appreciate the feedback.

    Iirc, the requirements simply say eligible for a IL CCW, it doesn't say you have to have one. Plus, the firearms division confirmed by phone I'm eligible...

    Hoping to find someone with experience.
    Last edited by Cypherpunk; 08-03-2014 at 10:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypherpunk View Post
    I'm in the process of applying for IL CCW Instructor.

    I'm still wondering;
    1. Why I can't submit ink prints taken by a LEO
    2. What law or regulation forbids LiveScan from crossing state lines and why ?
    3. How I can teach IL CCW, but not be able to get an IL CCW or carry there?

    .
    Here goes,to the best of my knowledge,I try to keep up to date.

    1. Why I can't submit ink prints taken by a LEO
    Because IL only accepts IL State Police approved LiveScan vendors to to submit prints.Sorry,it's part of the law,it's IL,.
    2. What law or regulation forbids LiveScan from crossing state lines and why ?
    I don't know of any law forbidding it,I think it's just that IL hasn't approved any out of state vendors.
    3. How I can teach IL CCW, but not be able to get an IL CCW or carry there?
    If your from out of state,and it's not one of the 4 approved states that qualifies you to obtain a $300.00 non resident permit,you must have a carry license from your state,along with all the other requirements to apply to be an instructor.

    So it appears that you could apply for a non resident instructors license if you're from MD,if you have a MD carry license,like you said,then come to IL and get LiveScan printed .But if you teach the class to MD residents,or a lot of other states residents, they will not be able to get a license,unless the law changes.Remember it's IL,the people running this state have things so messed up this seems normal to them.
    Last edited by Old Dude; 08-03-2014 at 11:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    WRONG!
    You just have to take the 16 hours of training, pass the live fire test, pay a $300 non-refundable application fee, and wait. And Wait. And WAIT!


    If wrong, the state police told me bad information. No out of state applicants. Additionally, I will not take 16 hrs of "training", pay $300, nor wait. Its a right not something that needs permission.

    And, if found out/caught, spend several years as a "guest" of IDoC!
    That depends on where you get caught ... not all places arrest for carrying (regardless of what the law says)


    That's because it ISN'T as stringent as ours! Only Hawaii's CHL is honored here (for now).
    I understood the reasoning behind it -- its just flawed reasoning...I thought 4 states were OK, Hawaii's being one....but its a moot point for me ~


    If ya have a link/quote to to law about the out of state people I would appreciate a cite/link to the statue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dude View Post
    Here goes,to the best of my knowledge,I try to keep up to date.

    1. Why I can't submit ink prints taken by a LEO
    Because IL only accepts IL State Police approved LiveScan vendors to to submit prints.Sorry,it's part of the law,it's IL,.
    2. What law or regulation forbids LiveScan from crossing state lines and why ?
    I don't know of any law forbidding it,I think it's just that IL hasn't approved any out of state vendors.
    3. How I can teach IL CCW, but not be able to get an IL CCW or carry there?
    If your from out of state,and it's not one of the 4 approved states that qualifies you to obtain a $300.00 non resident permit,you must have a carry license from your state,along with all the other requirements to apply to be an instructor.

    So it appears that you could apply for a non resident instructors license if you're from MD,if you have a MD carry license,like you said,then come to IL and get LiveScan printed .But if you teach the class to MD residents,or a lot of other states residents, they will not be able to get a license,unless the law changes.Remember it's IL,the people running this state have things so messed up this seems normal to them.
    You can object to the requirements, get rejected and appeal the rejection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Rulings in the DC Circuit don't apply anywhere but DC
    Can always be cited though ... they have weight in places where the law is unsettled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypherpunk View Post
    I'm in the process of applying for IL CCW Instructor.

    ISP informed me via phone that as long as I have my LiveScan in IL, by an ISP certified vendor, and include a copy of my MD permit, that should fulfill all the requirements as an out of state instructor applicant.

    I'm still wondering;
    1. Why I can't submit ink prints taken by a LEO
    2. What law or regulation forbids LiveScan from crossing state lines and why ?
    3. How I can teach IL CCW, but not be able to get an IL CCW or carry there?

    Any feedback appreciated.
    I think the LiveScan has to be done by vendors approved by Illinois, which I believe are all in Illinois. I understand that the Illinois State Police who issues the CHLs gets part of the fee, $20 is what I believe I've heard. Fingerprints aren't required, however expect the license to take a month or more longer if you don't pay the "bribe" , I mean LiveScan fee. It is something called "pay to play" and now you know why we've got 2 governors doing time, and maybe a 3rd to join them.

    One reason for them not taking paper ink prints is all applications before July were done online. The other reason I've mentioned above.

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    The IL laws are very confusing,to apply for an instructor license you must submit prints.To apply for a CCL it is not required,but can speed up the app. time.Go here..http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/de...38_issue18.pdf..scroll down to page 9705 to read the current instructor app. rules.They've had another emergency release since,but that covered objections and appeals only. This has lots of info too..http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...1sections.html
    Last edited by Old Dude; 08-04-2014 at 02:26 PM.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    For security reasons IIRC, Livescan machines must transmit directly to the state CJIS via direct line like a T-1 or other circuit. There is no other way except for perhaps a VPN type setup.

    I can't remember where I read this however so I have no cite. Maryland has the same requirement ie in state Livescan vendors only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYT View Post
    IL does accept other states licences.
    You just can't carry outside your vehicle.
    You don't need a license if your state has Constitutional Carry, or unlicensed OC.

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...F/098-0063.pdf
    (e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:
    (1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law;
    (2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence
    I'm sure they meant to require a home-state license, but that's not what they said.
    They gave non-residents Constitutional concealed carry, only in their vehicles.

    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter
    You just have to take the 16 hours of training, pass the live fire test, pay a $300 non-refundable application fee, and wait.
    Only Hawaii's CHL is honored here (for now).
    Um, no, IL does not honor ANY other CCL.
    Residents of the 4 states are allowed to apply for an IL non-resident permit, which yes, takes either 4 or 8 hours and $300.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dude
    Unless you are from Hawaii, New Mexico, S.Carolina or Virginia you can not apply for a concealed carry license in IL, and IL does not recognize any other states license
    What he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypherpunk
    3. How I can teach IL CCW, but not be able to get an IL CCW or carry there?
    You're expecting a gun law in IL to make sense.
    And realize that you can only teach residents of those 4 states.
    Or rather, you can teach anyone, but only those residents can benefit from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYT
    Unless they have changed the rules, you will be required to have a IL CCL to be an instructor... There are a few instructors that appear to be out of state, but actually live in IL.
    There are plenty of out-of-state instructors. I'm one, and I definitely live in WI.
    We just can't teach (ethically) because our students won't be able to get a permit.
    If someone understood that & wanted me to teach anyway, I'd do it.
    I'd like to find a range (or several) in N IL so I could run classes down there. From what I'm seeing on Craigslist, I could offer my normal charge, come in under most of them, and still be able to pay my bills.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 08-04-2014 at 03:37 PM.

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    I live right on the border of VA.

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    what can I do except get a copy of the survey ISP sent all the states so I can put it in front of MD's AG or Gov?

    Do I need to make a FOIA request, or can someone source a copy?

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