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Thread: Blaine City Hall

  1. #1
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    Blaine City Hall

    A few years ago I recounted the fight I had with then city manager Tomlin to get my gun checked to go to City Council meetings (held in the courtroom). He insisted that the law said I could check it at the police station, even though the station was next door to the City Hall and the law specifically said you had to check it with someone in the same building. On top of that, I came out of a city council meeting one evening and couldn't get my gun back because they were all gone on a call. Finally he agreed that the city clerk could check weapons (she wasn't too happy about it but did) and that was the end of that.

    They've moved to a new building and she still checks weapons. No problem. Except...

    ...I am now on the Planning Commission which meets on Thursday evenings when the City Clerk is not in the office. I can't check my weapon and can't carry it into council chambers (dual use as a courtroom). Sent an email to the new City Manager about a month ago but never heard back. Stopped by today and left a message with the City Clerk to let the CM know that I would like a resolution to this situation.

    If we ever get a gun friendly legislature and governor we need to change this stupid law so that it only applies to courtrooms when they are actually being used as courtrooms. It's ridiculous that I have to disarm to sit on the Planning Commission just because we only have one meeting room in the town.

    I'll keep you updated.

  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    If it isn't being used as a court room how can they still ban carry?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    If it isn't being used as a court room how can they still ban carry?
    Because a courtroom is viewed as a sacrosanct alter to Statism, by the worshipers of bureaucracy.

    As a place of false worship, they believe it must be kept 'clean' even when empty, used for a city meeting, or used by a judge to get a BJ from the court stenographer.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 07-31-2014 at 10:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Discuss this with the City Attorney. There are Attorney General decisions that go the other way about School use of property that show intent.

    Found it:

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/op...=topic&id=9238

    The room is NOT exclusive use for the Court, so arguably NOT a Court Room during the other meetings.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    Discuss this with the City Attorney. There are Attorney General decisions that go the other way about School use of property that show intent.

    Found it:

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/op...=topic&id=9238

    The room is NOT exclusive use for the Court, so arguably NOT a Court Room during the other meetings.
    Call a competent and honest attorney and ask for their opinion and willingness to defend you/sue the pants off of the council if your carry becomes a big issue.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    There are Attorney General decisions


    Attorneys General don't issue decisions, they issue opinions which have no force of law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Attorneys General don't issue decisions, they issue opinions which have no force of law.[/COLOR]
    True. But since it is Attorneys General and their subordinate who decide whether to prosecute someone or just let them go uncharged, those opinions are not quite as meaningless as you imply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    True. But since it is Attorneys General and their subordinate who decide whether to prosecute someone or just let them go uncharged, those opinions are not quite as meaningless as you imply.
    Are you somehow under the impression that county prosecutors work for the Attorney General?

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    Are you somehow under the impression that county prosecutors work for the Attorney General?
    They are subordinate to the "top cop".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
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    They are subordinate to the "top cop".
    No. They are independent. County prosecutors are elected - answering to the voters. City attorneys are appointed through a political process that is accountable to the local voters.

    State attorneys general rarely prosecute in this state. It has happened, and they have the authority, but that doesn't change the fact that local prosecutors don't answer to them.

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    No. They are independent. County prosecutors are elected - answering to the voters. City attorneys are appointed through a political process that is accountable to the local voters.

    State attorneys general rarely prosecute in this state. It has happened, and they have the authority, but that doesn't change the fact that local prosecutors don't answer to them.
    The state attorney are elected too as the top prosecutor in the state. It is rare they prosecute but they are of higher "rank" than local prosecutors. The main problem is they don't take complaints from "civilians".
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-04-2014 at 08:48 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
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    It is rare they prosecute but they are of higher "rank" than local prosecutors.


    Care to establish that in law?

    This is similar to the misconception that city police report to the sheriff, and the sheriff reports to the state patrol.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    It's not similar to that at all and no one said one reports to the other.

    Subordinate in the sense they are a lesser rank, the state has the power to investigate and prosecute the prosecutors, the AG is the states top cop.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
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    Subordinate in the sense they are a lesser rank, the state has the power to investigate and prosecute the prosecutors, the AG is the states top cop.


    The authority of anyone elected or appointed as a prosecutor in this state is equal, same as anyone appointed a commissioned police officer.

    Any prosecutor in this state has the authority to investigate and prosecute any other.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    The authority of anyone elected or appointed as a prosecutor in this state is equal, same as anyone appointed a commissioned police officer.

    Any prosecutor in this state has the authority to investigate and prosecute any other.[/COLOR]
    So the city legislature is equal to the state legislature.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
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    So the city legislature is equal to the state legislature.


    Uh, no.

    We're talking about an executive branch office, not legislative. It's all laid out in the State Constitution and RCWs.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Uh, no.

    We're talking about an executive branch office, not legislative. It's all laid out in the State Constitution and RCWs.[/COLOR]
    So the mayor is equal to the governor? (beating SVG to the punch)
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  18. #18
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    So the mayor is equal to the governor?


    No, but the governor doesn't have any authority to meddle in the city affairs of the mayor, just like the attorney general doesn't have any authority to meddle in the administrative affairs of a county prosecutor or city attorney.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    No, but the governor doesn't have any authority to meddle in the city affairs of the mayor, just like the attorney general doesn't have any authority to meddle in the administrative affairs of a county prosecutor or city attorney.[/COLOR]
    Ah I see the problem now, you are arguing an argument we were not making.

    The AG does have the power as top cop to prosecute prosecutors and to do so when their decisions are not compatible with state law.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-05-2014 at 04:43 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Uh, no.

    We're talking about an executive branch office, not legislative. It's all laid out in the State Constitution and RCWs.[/COLOR]
    Missing the point.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
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    The AG does have the power as top cop to prosecute prosecutors and to do so when their decisions are not compatible with state law.


    Yes of course. And it works both ways. Local prosecutors have the authority to prosecute the AG if he violates state law.

    I disagree with the term "top cop." It implies some authority that isn't there.
    Last edited by deanf; 08-05-2014 at 04:57 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I will never understand why reasonable, knowledgeable, intelligent people continue conversations with those that refuse to be or can't be convinced by reason and facts. All that is accomplished by this is giving them a platform on which to speak their nonsense and making you a part of that nonsense. A person is not required to attend every argument that he is invited to. Just ignore these people and they will disappear. Their departure will lower your blood pressure, allow you to get a good night's sleep and be a benefit to OCDO by raising the level of the discussion here. I have found that the judicious use of the "ignore" button makes life more enjoyable.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
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    I have found that the judicious use of the "ignore" button makes life more enjoyable.


    Ah yes. Wouldn't want to consider the opinions of others. Maybe pit them against your own, to see if your own stand up. What good would that do? It might upset your enjoyable life.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post


    Yes of course. And it works both ways. Local prosecutors have the authority to prosecute the AG if he violates state law.

    I disagree with the term "top cop." It implies some authority that isn't there.
    I see your point on that "top cop" thing.

    Yet the way it is he is the highest ranking prosecutor in the state.

    In a recent conversation with Dave McEachron who is not following state law and giving out bad advise at the county courthouse and to the county employees, when I asked who is above his head to remedy the situation he smugly said the AG is the only one. I replied he knows he doesn't take cases from non government in this matter he smugly replied "yep".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Ah yes. Wouldn't want to consider the opinions of others. Maybe pit them against your own, to see if your own stand up. What good would that do? It might upset your enjoyable life.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    +1 I found trying to argue my point and loosing is the best way to change the way I see things or my misconceptions.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-05-2014 at 05:06 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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