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Thread: Massachusetts to let police chief deny gun buys to those deemed unfit.

  1. #1
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    Massachusetts to let police chief deny gun buys to those deemed unfit.

    Massachusetts lawmakers sent a bill to Gov. Deval Patrick’s desk for passage that puts police chiefs in charge of deciding whether or not a person is fit enough to own a gun — and gives them the power to deny purchases in certain cases.

    “We seek not to be the safest state in the nation, but strive to make our communities the safest in the world,” said House Speaker Robert DeLeo, Reuters reported.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...un-buys-those/

    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...EvfsvHaSRLbM7M
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-01-2014 at 05:38 PM.
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to let one group of people decide when another group can be legally armed is very sick in the head. Such a person needs serious help. I suggest induction of a pentobarb coma and continuous EEG to see what's going in the brain. Anywayw the slaves of Taxachusetts get everything they deserve and more. Disgusting and contemptible.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Seems reasonable to me.

    If the good citizens of MA desire a different course regarding their 2A they will elect those amongst them to change the course.

    It is ironic that MA, the cradle of our republic, will have a cop decide who is worthy of gun ownership.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Seems reasonable to me.

    If the good citizens of MA desire a different course regarding their 2A they will elect those amongst them to change the course.

    It is ironic that MA, the cradle of our republic, will have a cop decide who is worthy of gun ownership.
    Actually they wont the chief has to petition the court as to why they think they shouldn't have an FID card. They won't be the final say the Judge will be.

    Just to clarify.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Is MA a shall issue state for shotguns and rifles?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is MA a shall issue state for shotguns and rifles?
    As of right now yes. FID is shall issue. That's non large capacity rifle and shotguns. This bill will allow chiefs to petition the courts directly to deny individuals.

    This is actually a tiny piece of the larger bill being passes right now. With many other changes like getting rid of LTC class B. Changing definitions and other things.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I would hope the Heller decision will eventually mitigate the inevitable abuse that this will lead to while keeping any positive outcomes.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Thanks. I found it interesting that a top cop, in one news story, referenced some 80 y/o dude that he issued a FID to for a shotgun ended up using that shotgun to hold of cops for awhile. It indicated that he had no idea, at that time, that the old dude was kind of nuts as it turns out.

    My question has always been, since when is being nuts a crime? If you do something unlawful because you are nuts, other than simply owning a gun, then you hold that nutter to account for his criminal acts. Do not make a citizen a prohibited person for being a nutty law abiding citizen.

    Anyway, I guess it could have been worse for the good citizens of MA...not much, but worse it could've been.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Thanks. I found it interesting that a top cop, in one news story, referenced some 80 y/o dude that he issued a FID to for a shotgun ended up using that shotgun to hold of cops for awhile. It indicated that he had no idea, at that time, that the old dude was kind of nuts as it turns out.

    My question has always been, since when is being nuts a crime? If you do something unlawful because you are nuts, other than simply owning a gun, then you hold that nutter to account for his criminal acts. Do not make a citizen a prohibited person for being a nutty law abiding citizen.

    Anyway, I guess it could have been worse for the good citizens of MA...not much, but worse it could've been.
    Yes and the funniest part about that story is that it was front page news in the MA newspapers including the quote from Ed Davis (former Boston Police Commissioner) that said "I had no idea that the individual was mentally disturbed until after the situation had occurred." THis of course begs the questions "So how would this proposed law change the situation that you did not know?". It of course would not. If the uniformed voters in MA (my state) had just googled Ed Davis gun control history they would have seen that he has always opposed gun ownership in the city of Boston and has said things such as "Why does the resident of a large city need a shotgun ... what are they going to hunt?" and "What difference does it make if you are killed by a handgun or a shotgun?". He is one of the police chiefs that intended to use the law to just blanket deny issuance of FID cards ( "Firearms ID" which are used for shotgun and non large capacity rifles in MA) jsut as several of them do now with LTC ("License to Carry" which are used in MA for handguns and large capacity rifles).

    The good news is that the minority who support 2nd amendment rights in this state mobilized and got the proposed bill amended in several areas.

    1. Issuing authorities (usually local Police Chief) must provide the reason for denying an FID card in writing to a district court judge explaining why the person has proven to the Chief to be a danger to the public (usually domestic violence background) and the judge must approve the denial. THe law as originally written would allow the Chief to deny right to anybody he deemed "unsuitable" without defining suitability.

    (Note : language regarding "suitability" was removed from several areas of the bill. THere is no concept of "suitability" in the law. You are either ineligible (Convicted felon or adjudicated mentally unstable) or you have the right. Might seem like a small victory but in this state we take what we can get.

    2. The proposed law would have made private gun sales illegal. All gun sales would have to be done through FFL transfers. This was removed from final version.

    3. The proposed law would have given the Attorney General control over the "approved firearms roster" defining what guns were legal for sale in MA. Thankfully this was removed from the final law. If you are not familiar with MA firearms law you should look it up some day. The AG exerts influence over the sale of handguns in this state by threatening manufacturers and FFL's with legal action under the "deceptive sales practices" statutes in MA law. THat is why it is (almost) impossible to buy a new Glock in this state even though they are on the approved firearms roster. If you find an FFL willing to skirt the law (and I would never publish their names!) you end up paying $900 for a gun you an buy in NH for $550.

    So all you people living in free states ... Enjoy and think fondly of us living in the progressive states of MA and CA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spt_1955 View Post
    [...] Enjoy and think fondly of us living in the progressive states ...
    LOL What does progressive mean to you that you would or could except all the others of these United States.

    Progressivism is the political bowel movement to make-things-better, leaving the unintended consequences to US to suffer.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I am ashamed to have MA as a birthplace on my birth certificate. MA does not believe in the rule of law. MA stands for everything it used to hate.

    Just roll over and take your medicine, people of MA.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I am ashamed to have MA as a birthplace on my birth certificate. MA does not believe in the rule of law. MA stands for everything it used to hate.

    Just roll over and take your medicine, people of MA.
    While your ashamed to have it on your birth certificate I'm glad you left.

    You clearly have no idea what we are about.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    About being bullies who believe if you don't leave you consent......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    While your ashamed to have it on your birth certificate I'm glad you left.

    You clearly have no idea what we are about.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

    Negative, I have a pretty good idea what you are about.

    Question though, are you a city cop in Boston, or from Southie, or are you out in the boondocks somewhere out West-a-ways? If I was a bettin' man I'd guess Southie.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    About being bullies who believe if you don't leave speak up you consent......
    remember, all those folks who had their property rights (4A) violated during the Boston Constitution Suspension Event consented because they did not speak up. Primus has pointed this out.

    For those who may not know what it is I speak of. Primus pointed out the fact that nobody complained about the treatment they received during the Boston Constitution Suspension Event and since they did not their 4A right was not violated.

    This is the prototypical cop mindset. If ya don't complain you consent, even after the fact.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    remember, all those folks who had their property rights (4A) violated during the Boston Constitution Suspension Event consented because they did not speak up. Primus has pointed this out.

    For those who may not know what it is I speak of. Primus pointed out the fact that nobody complained about the treatment they received during the Boston Constitution Suspension Event and since they did not their 4A right was not violated.

    This is the prototypical cop mindset. If ya don't complain you consent, even after the fact.
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Negative, I have a pretty good idea what you are about.

    Question though, are you a city cop in Boston, or from Southie, or are you out in the boondocks somewhere out West-a-ways? If I was a bettin' man I'd guess Southie.
    He makes it pretty clear.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Massachusetts lawmakers sent a bill to Gov. Deval Patrick’s desk for passage that puts police chiefs in charge of deciding whether or not a person is fit enough to own a gun — and gives them the power to deny purchases in certain cases.

    “We seek not to be the safest state in the nation, but strive to make our communities the safest in the world,” said House Speaker Robert DeLeo, Reuters reported.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...un-buys-those/

    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...EvfsvHaSRLbM7M
    Can you still build a gun if the C.O.P. turns you down? Here in CT, we have to get a permission slip to purchase .. I just build my own. Screw you Mr. Gov't Man.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-08-2014 at 09:45 PM.

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