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Thread: 2014 Carry - New to AZ

  1. #1
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    2014 Carry - New to AZ

    I am looking to make sure that I have done my research correctly and understand the laws that Arizona has in place to restrict our second amendment rights. I open carried in Wisconsin before they had concealed carry in effect and moved to Texas shortly after it was implemented. Never carried in Texas because I had to be a resident for a period of time and also never had that chunk of cash to put down on extra training and permits. Texas doesn't recognize out of state training. Anyway I am moving to AZ for school and am glad that I won't have to go around defenseless anymore for the most part (stupid college ). From my understanding anyone not prohibited can carry openly or concealed because of the recent changes for constitutional carry. It is also my understanding that Indian reservations are a bad place to carry unless you fully understand their laws and even so is still a bad idea because they can differ from AZ. Although the out of reach and unloaded just passing through is okay because of a federal law. Other places that you cannot carry are places that serve alcohol including restaurants that may serve alcohol. Although if you have a permit and conceal it then you have no problem. Lastly, a college campus can make extreme restrictive policies including not even allowing a firearm to be secured in a vehicle. So you must know your campus policy to the letter to avoid being a criminal. I've read up on the attempts to make it so a college cannot make such rules and I very much support this since I will have to be on campus majority of my next three years.

    During my research it was my goal to find out what form of carry was legal and how to go about it. Without a permit system that makes it a lot easier to understand. I wanted to know how this extended to vehicles. If some of you can elaborate on the transportation of firearms including long guns that you don't carry I would appreciate it. For the longest time in Wisconsin it had to be cased until the concealed carry laws came in. Even for open carry we had to unload, case the weapon. When we wanted to carry we would have to load up in the parking lot. Yet again if you didn't have a permit to carry. Open carry in vehicles was considered concealed by some. One of the members on this forum won a lengthy legal battle on that subject. I also wanted to know where carry was restricted besides the people who post signs in the window and do not want my money. I look forward to your responses and hope we can make this thread useful for those who are new.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    You must be 21 to conceal, so it is slightly more restrictive than "not prohibited."

    Indian reservations can not enforce tribal laws on you. But, like a business, they can kick you off their reservation for any reason, so it's best to abide by their rules, or at least make them think you are (conceal, carry on, and try not to spend any money with them). New Mexico is the only state I know of around here that has a state law that does make it illegal to possess firearms on Indian lands if the Indians make it their rule, or something like that. You can research it if you need to worry about it while traveling through New Mexico.

    "Out of reach and unloaded" is not a federal law. It's moot in this situation anyway, but the actual interstate transportation law would require you to have it unloaded and locked away in a compartment like a trunk in order to be under its claimed protection. Even so, it doesn't work in the usual states who will persecute you from state LEOs, and prosecute you under state laws before state judges for months before you get to use a federal law in an appeal to someone who cares about a federal law that protects little people.

    Long guns can be anywhere in a vehicle. I don't know if the chamber can be loaded, but the magazine certainly can be. Nevada requires that the chamber be unloaded, and that is how I normally store my truck's long guns anyway, so I've not checked into that part of AZ law.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-02-2014 at 08:07 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Thank you for your response. I briefly read something regarding FOPA and I think this link [nraila.org] touches on it. I understand that it might not help a person anyway. If someone wants to throw the book and go after you it doesn't take much to do so. I'm currently 22 and glad of it. No more age restrictions that I had previously. Only reason I'd be interested in a permit is because Wisconsin and Texas accepts it and I see myself having to visit family in both states regularly.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    SNIP... Lastly, a college campus can make extreme restrictive policies including not even allowing a firearm to be secured in a vehicle. So you must know your campus policy to the letter to avoid being a criminal. I've read up on the attempts to make it so a college cannot make such rules and I very much support this since I will have to be on campus majority of my next three years. SNIP...
    Good to hear from you again HolyOrangeJuice!
    Don't know where you will be attending, but we've likely got an active member nearby, and that means get-togethers are likely.

    As a citizen you're unlikely to get slammed with carrying on campus property (provided you're only walking through, but then it would be trespassing if you didn't leave when asked by a representative of the college). However, as a student you're subject to "disciplinary actions" by the Arizona Board of Tyrants, err, Regents (ABOR, fittingly). I'm guessing this would include suspension and possibly expulsion, all as a means of enforcing their opinion under the guise of "student safety". This unconstitutional "authority" is spelled out for them in ARS 15-1626 (http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....15&DocType=ARS).

    You seem to have the law down. One thing I will say about the alcohol caveat is that it refers to places that serve alcohol for consumption (bars, clubs, etc.), so the corner CVS isn't off-limits.

    I'd recommend printing off a copy of the weapons misconduct statutes (ARS 13-3102) and keeping them nearby until you're comfortable with the law (and even then, you can use it to assuage a potential OCer's fears):
    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...13&DocType=ARS

    As a final note, an audio-video recorder (or at least an audio recorder) can be invaluable if you were to encounter an anti (known to make the devil look honest) or an Opinion Enforcement Officer.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 08-02-2014 at 11:20 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Glad to know someone recognizes me although I cannot say the same. Perhaps I will as I become familiar with the board and the people on it again. I will be attending Embry Riddle. I have attempted to contact several individuals including the director of security with our campus. No one will respond or give me a direct answer as regards to our written firearms policy. It is crucial to know of this policy as just having the firearm in a locked vehicle can be illegal depending on how it is written.

    I appreciate your response but it did give me a few more questions that I hope can be answered. Besides the diciplinary actions of the school what criminal action can be taken against someone. Such as if they slammed you with carrying on campus property. I know that most of us are not lawyers and a variety of stuff could be done but I still appreciate the input.

    I have an audio recorder from my days of carrying in Wisconsin. It works well and has been used many times while carrying. Nothing interesting of course because I never had an issue with anyone but I have it. I also have I KAM XTREME glasses that are excellent sun glasses but also have a camera in them. They don't record GO PRO HD quality but good enough that you can get decent audio/video. I will be looking up this right after I post but what are the laws regarding audio/video recording. In Wisconsin only one party had to be notified that this was going on. So you being the notified party was enough and you didn't have to wave a huge banner that said you were recording.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    Glad to know someone recognizes me although I cannot say the same.
    Don't worry about it; it was only in passing on an earlier thread here in the AZ subforum.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    I will be attending Embry Riddle.SNIP...
    Embry Riddle, Prescott campus, does not fall under the "authority" of the ABOR, instead qualifying as a private institution; more digging will be required, but I can almost guarantee that any answer you receive will be an opinion unless you are provided with a copy of the actual policies.
    Best of luck; I'll keep digging on my end.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    Besides the diciplinary actions of the school what criminal action can be taken against someone. Such as if they slammed you with carrying on campus property. I know that most of us are not lawyers and a variety of stuff could be done but I still appreciate the input.
    I'd say it depends on how conspicuous the campus makes its policy regarding firearms and "weapons" (usually a catch-all term). The UA has gunbuster stickers on every door (that I have noticed), gunbuster signs at major intersections within the campus, and has had public forums as well as statements opposing (LEGAL) guns on campus.
    It's been some time since I was last on ASU's campus, but I vaguely recall gunbuster stickers on the main library doors and at least one gunbuster sign; they, along with NAU, also fall under the authority of the ABOR, so I'd imagine it is the same as the U of A.
    Hope this helps somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    I will be looking up this right after I post but what are the laws regarding audio/video recording. In Wisconsin only one party had to be notified that this was going on. So you being the notified party was enough and you didn't have to wave a huge banner that said you were recording.
    This I think I can address. Applicable law can be found in ARS 13-3005 "Interception of wire, electronic and oral communications; installation of pen register or trap and trace device; classification; exceptions" (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...&DocType=ARS):

    Quote Originally Posted by ARS 13-3005
    A. Except as provided in this section and section 13-3012, a person is guilty of a class 5 felony who either:
    1. Intentionally intercepts a wire or electronic communication to which he is not a party, or aids, authorizes, employs, procures or permits another to so do, without the consent of either a sender or receiver thereof.
    2. Intentionally intercepts a conversation or discussion at which he is not present, or aids, authorizes, employs, procures or permits another to so do, without the consent of a party to such conversation or discussion.
    3. Intentionally intercepts the deliberations of a jury or aids, authorizes, employs, procures or permits another to so do.
    B. Except as provided in sections 13-3012 and 13-3017, a person who intentionally and without lawful authority installs or uses a pen register or trap and trace device on the telephone lines or communications facilities of another person which are utilized for wire or electronic communication is guilty of a class 6 felony.
    If I understand it correctly, you are good to go seeing as you are one party participating in the conversations/interactions taking place in the public places you will be frequenting.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 08-03-2014 at 04:29 AM. Reason: Clarification
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  7. #7
    Regular Member asubae's Avatar
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    Main pointers for your vehicle-related carry/long guns questions:

    -So far as I can tell, Arizona law treats all firearms carried in a vehicle as equal. Long, short, skinny, fat, wide.. -irrelevant. (Unless they're NFA/Class-3 of course then you must comply with federal transportation laws.)

    -When you are carrying in a vehicle, the firearm must be carried in:

    1. "A case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation."
    2. A manner where a portion of the firearm or holster of the firearm is carried is visible.
    3. A holster that is wholly or partially visible.
    4. A scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons that is wholly or partially visible.
    5. Luggage.

    -If during official contact with police, you are asked if you have a deadly weapon on your person or in the immediate control of your person, you must reply truthfully. You do not need to consent to an unwarranted search. You do not have to inform police immediately on contact you are armed, only tell them if they ask you.

    -It is lawful for LEOs to take temporary custody of your weapon(s) for the duration of their official police contact. (So don't do any of that "do you have a warrant" for the cops to take your gun stuff like on youtube.) So long as you are not a prohibited possessor by AZ law and did not use/have the weapon in the commission of a crime, etc... the firearm will be returned to you. The police will usually only take it as a personal safety measure, some will have the "don't show me yours and I won't show you mine; don't reach for yours. I won't reach for mine." attitude while conducting other police business.

    -Embry Riddle is not seen as a school by AZ law. You may have your gun in your personally owned vehicle on campus property. You must keep it locked and out of plain view when you exit the vehicle. You do not have to keep it unloaded.


    12-781. Transportation or storage of firearms; motor vehicles; applicability
    A. A property owner, tenant, public or private employer or business entity shall not establish, maintain or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits a person from lawfully transporting or lawfully storing any firearm that is both:
    1. In the person's locked and privately owned motor vehicle or in a locked compartment on the person's privately owned motorcycle.
    2. Not visible from the outside of the motor vehicle or motorcycle.

    If you read the statute a bit more, it says the policy is null and void blah blah but continue further sounds a lot to me like they can't say anything about you having it in your car if there's no fence around it with controlled entry points manned by a security guard and on-site secure storage.

    As Rusty Young Man stated, Embry Riddle is a private university and therefore not subject to AZ/ABOR governance laws regarding firearms on their campus. You must check their school policy on this. Just, whatever their policy is remember ARS 12-781.

    FURTHERMORE,

    If any representative of the school or LEO asks you to leave the school premises because you are carrying a loaded firearm and you refuse, you may receive a criminal trespass charge, potentially have your gun confiscated, go through the whole legal shabam etc. I do believe the best case scenario is that the school asks you to leave campus property. Chances are they'll just approach you and ask you to leave. Private establishments (like Embry Riddle) which post gun-buster signs have the force of law. If you are carrying where they are posted, I believe you are trespassing whether you noticed it or not, but the poster's responsibility is to make the sign somewhat obvious. Justifiable defenses aside, these signs have the force of law and you must obey them. It is best for law-abiding armed citizens to just stay away from these places or disarm before entering.

    4-229. Licenses; Handguns; Posting of Notice
    B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted
    the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.
    C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:
    1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section before the
    violation.
    2. Any one or more of the following apply:
    (a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.
    (b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.
    (c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty
    days before the violation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Long guns can be anywhere in a vehicle. I don't know if the chamber can be loaded, but the magazine certainly can be. Nevada requires that the chamber be unloaded, and that is how I normally store my truck's long guns anyway, so I've not checked into that part of AZ law.
    It is permissible to have the chamber loaded in the state of Arizona so long as you comply with the transportation laws I outlined above. Normally, though, I have my everyday carry chambered anyway. Why would I be allowed to carry a pistol cocked and locked holstered on my hip but my AR-15 in the backseat in a carrying case has to be unloaded?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    Besides the diciplinary actions of the school what criminal action can be taken against someone. Such as if they slammed you with carrying on campus property. I know that most of us are not lawyers and a variety of stuff could be done but I still appreciate the input.
    "Carrying on campus property" is not a crime. State law leaves it to the non-public universities to create their own firearms policies. Even if you were to carry on a public university (ASU,NAU,UofEhhhh), you are in violation of ABOR policy. Where you begin to commit a crime is when you violate their gun buster signs as this serves as a reasonable request by the owner of the establishment to disarm yourself before entering. If you're a student, you will be subject to disciplinary actions by the school. All the criminal stuff comes from what the school lawyers decides to legally charge you with (and I'm sure they will be very creative in their criminal complaint) like criminal trespass for example.
    Last edited by asubae; 08-03-2014 at 07:04 AM.

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    Wow thank you both for your extensive posts. I hope this thread will help others who are looking to do research on the laws as well. I think all of my questions are answered for right now.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Apologies if anyone already addressed this....

    Arizona law does not make any distinction between a loaded or unloaded firearm.

    Your age determines how you can carry. Over 21 and you can carry discreetly or openly without a permit. 19 year olds with military service can obtain permits.

    Under 21 and it's open carry only subject to constraints of ARS 13-3102.B.3.

    To carry where booze is served for consumption you must possess a CCW permit, can only carry discreetly and the establishment does not post a "this is a victim rich environment" no-gun sign.

    Finally, if anyone reading this does not like the way current gun laws are in Arizona (I don't), you have two choices. Whine about it like way too many others do on online forums like this one, or join AzCDL and make a difference

    Fred

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    Thank you Fred. Just got the final word I was accepted into a place on the valley. So I should be out soon. One more thing I thought of was the restriction of carry within a 1000 ft of a k-12 school zone. (I know we must think of the children =/) in Wisconsin you would be charged with that if you were "knowingly" in a zone. The key was knowing. Basically could claim you didn't know. Not sure how well that would hold up in court but that is how it was. Anytime I carried was on private property owned by someone or a business. Had to unload and case in a car so wasn't carrying when driving around town by schools. Basically is passing through while on a walk or driving still going to be an issue? Not sure how many schools are near where I will be going.
    Last edited by HolyOrangeJuice; 08-05-2014 at 06:30 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    ...One more thing I thought of was the restriction of carry within a 1000 ft of a k-12 school zone. (I know we must think of the children =/) in Wisconsin you would be charged with that if you were "knowingly" in a zone. The key was knowing. Basically could claim you didn't know. Not sure how well that would hold up in court but that is how it was. Anytime I carried was on private property owned by someone or a business. Had to unload and case in a car so wasn't carrying when driving around town by schools. Basically is passing through while on a walk or driving still going to be an issue? Not sure how many schools are near where I will be going.
    You can ignore that unconstitutional federal law in AZ, NV, UT, and most other free states; it is not enforced nor even considered. Its previous incarnation has already been struck down by the SCOTUS, and the current iteration is just as unconstitutional and everyone knows it. If I heard correctly, WI is one of the states with a similar state law, which of course makes a huge difference.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-05-2014 at 07:21 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member asubae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    Thank you Fred. Just got the final word I was accepted into a place on the valley. So I should be out soon. One more thing I thought of was the restriction of carry within a 1000 ft of a k-12 school zone. (I know we must think of the children =/) in Wisconsin you would be charged with that if you were "knowingly" in a zone. The key was knowing. Basically could claim you didn't know. Not sure how well that would hold up in court but that is how it was. Anytime I carried was on private property owned by someone or a business. Had to unload and case in a car so wasn't carrying when driving around town by schools. Basically is passing through while on a walk or driving still going to be an issue? Not sure how many schools are near where I will be going.
    You can't possess a deadly weapon on school grounds. Driving/walking by on a public thoroughfare are not school grounds, and schools (as defined by AZ state law) are K-12. There are no state limitations on being within x-feet. Either you are on school property, or you're not.

    Furthermore, if you're in your car on school property and want to pick up your kids and have a firearm in the car, it must be unloaded and left in the vehicle locked, out of plain view if you plan to exit the vehicle. Peace officers are excepted.


    ...and that's about it. I love this state lol.

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    I love the firearm and carry laws so far. Better than Texas right now. I am glad I will have the choice to CC or OC whenever I want to. Just need to get that last step about restaurants fixed . CC only with a permit is stupid and isn't logical. Why does one form of carry with a piece of paper mean anything...

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    Just need to get that last step about restaurants fixed
    It's far from the last step. We have whole sections of law that must be eliminated before we restore the complete and unfettered right to carry what you want, when you want, and where you want without fear of breaking any laws.

    But it only will happen when gun owners collectively pull their heads out of their asses and participate in the political process.

    Fred

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    Well over my next three years there I will be willing to learn how to do my part. Don't know if I will stay in AZ after college but hope that other gun owners in other states start fighting just as hard as AZ does. Useless laws that look to criminalize good people need to be stopped.

    Edit: To avoid a double post is Arizona a stop and ID state? WI didn't require to ID yourself just because an officer asked. Had to be an official reason or stop.
    Last edited by HolyOrangeJuice; 08-06-2014 at 11:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    Well over my next three years there I will be willing to learn how to do my part. Don't know if I will stay in AZ after college but hope that other gun owners in other states start fighting just as hard as AZ does. Useless laws that look to criminalize good people need to be stopped.

    Edit: To avoid a double post is Arizona a stop and ID state? WI didn't require to ID yourself just because an officer asked. Had to be an official reason or stop.
    AZ is not a stop-and-ID state; you must be suspected of having committed, currently committing, or about to commit a crime. Still, there is always the possibility that you will encounter an Opinion Enforcement Officer who could care less what the law says.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARS 13-2412
    13-2412. Refusing to provide truthful name when lawfully detained; classification

    A. It is unlawful for a person, after being advised that the person's refusal to answer is unlawful, to fail or refuse to state the person's true full name on request of a peace officer who has lawfully detained the person based on reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime. A person detained under this section shall state the person's true full name, but shall not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of a peace officer.
    B. A person who violates this section is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.
    "Trust, but verify"; Read the statute yourself here:
    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...13&DocType=ARS

    Add.
    If you're able to make it, AZCDL will have its annual luncheon in Phoenix on the 11th of October. Tickets are $20.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 08-06-2014 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Addendum
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    If you're able to make it, AZCDL will have its annual luncheon in Phoenix on the 11th of October. Tickets are $20.
    Thanks for the reminder, just bought them and renewed membership for next year.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Thank you again to all responding. Hopefully it is helping more than just me. Should be settled in by October so might just make it.

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