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Thread: VA-ALERT: Stafford Sheriff to prohibit OC at National Night Out!

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    VA-ALERT: Stafford Sheriff to prohibit OC at National Night Out!

    Guess I'm the one up late enough tonight to post this...

    TFred

    From PVC:

    VA-ALERT: Stafford Sheriff to prohibit OC at National Night Out!

    The Stafford County Sheriff’s Department is not allowing VCDL to have a booth at Tuesday's National Night Out event UNLESS we agree not to open carry! The other condition for the booth was that we only distribute information from the assigned booth.

    While the second condition would have been acceptable, VCDL will NOT accept infringements on ANY legal means of carry and the Sheriff’s Department was told so.

    Since we are not getting a booth, we can walk around and distribute VCDL information and carry as we please.

    If you want to stand up for your rights, we are looking for members and supporters to pass out "Guns Save Lives" stickers and VCDL materials (carry cards and brochures).

    Stafford National Night Out is held in front of the Target In the Stafford Marketplace Shopping Center on Garrisonville Road (610). It is THIS Tuesday, August 5th, from 6 to 9 PM.

    If you can help out, please send an email to Bruce@vcdl.org. Please include your cell phone number to help with coordination at the event.

    We are also looking to have some attorneys on site to observe the event. If you are an attorney who can be there, please let me know by emailing me at president@vcdl.org.

    I will be there, along with Board members Bruce Jackson and Dennis O’Connor.

    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
    ************************************************** *************************

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    On the agenda - we ride!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    On the agenda - we ride!
    If only it weren't North of the Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    On the agenda - we ride!
    Although I am on "staycation", tis Gr8Legs birthday and have multiple things planned so a ride-along is not possible......unless one of you fine folks would like a boarder for the next 10 years.

    ;>)
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 08-04-2014 at 09:54 AM. Reason: corrected for spelling a la El Skidmark

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Although I am on "staycation", tis Gr8Legs birthday and have multiple things planned so a ride-along is not possible......unless one of you fine folks would like a border for the next 10 years.

    ;>)
    We haven't had a southern border for years - might be nice to have one again.

    As for boarders - they are only for repelling. Preferably with cutlasses.

    Stafford County Sheriff may never have heard that saying about waving a pork chop at a junkyard dog.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Although I am on "staycation", tis Gr8Legs birthday and have multiple things planned so a ride-along is not possible......unless one of you fine folks would like a border for the next 10 years.

    ;>)
    Bring her with you.... 'Hey honey, for your birthday I thought we would go out to dinner at this really nice place in Stafford....'

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Have been advised that the parking lot is not for the exclusive use Target customers, but is shared by Pet Smart and Lowes.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Have been advised that the parking lot is not for the exclusive use Target customers, but is shared by Pet Smart and Lowes.
    A link to Stafford Marketplace on Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/p3THZ

    There are numerous stores/restaurants that share the same parking areas.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    A link to Stafford Marketplace on Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/p3THZ

    There are numerous stores/restaurants that share the same parking areas.
    It does get better and better - appreciate the direct link.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Bring her with you.... 'Hey honey, for your birthday I thought we would go out to dinner at this really nice place in Stafford....'
    LOL Maybe your wife would fall for that, but mine has a limited list of acceptable places she is willing to go to eat and hates surprises.

    Good try though. ;>)

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Unrelated, but...

    Just a heads up folks. Developing story, two counties away from Stafford, by road at least, but in the same local media news coverage area.

    A family of five found dead in Culpeper home

    No reports as of yet whether it's domestic murder/suicide, or all homicides.

    TFred

    ETA: Multiple news outlets now reporting it as a suspected murder/suicide.
    ETA2: More information. Terrible story, makes me very sad.
    Last edited by TFred; 08-04-2014 at 12:01 PM.

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    5 found dead in home in Culpeper

    Sounds like a murder/suicide. I hate they had to involve the kids. My daughter went to school with the oldest child. Sad.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Scooter -

    Welcome to OCDO. Hope you stick around.

    Nothing on whether or not there was overt/obvious marital discord or separation.

    It's a shame that when one person decides they can no longer take it (whatever "it" may be) they so often also decide to take their family with them.

    Showing my cruel, heartless side - thankfully the press has so far not mentioned the provision of "grief counselors". Maybe the start of school is too far off? [That last sentence may or may not have been sarcasm.]

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Nothing on whether or not there was overt/obvious marital discord or separation.

    It's a shame that when one person decides they can no longer take it (whatever "it" may be) they so often also decide to take their family with them.

    Showing my cruel, heartless side - thankfully the press has so far not mentioned the provision of "grief counselors". Maybe the start of school is too far off? [That last sentence may or may not have been sarcasm.]

    stay safe.
    Actually, local media is reporting that there had been fairly well-known domestic stress in the house. The wife apparently did not want to make it worse by calling the police.

    And local Culpeper authorities have indeed already started talking about counseling services for the school kids and others.

    TFred

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Latest VCDL ALERT puts drama llama back in the barn

    Go read it yourself - you are subscribed to get them, aren't you?

    And here I was planning to go up there with bail money at the ready. Think I'll check out some of the events closer to home.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Said VA-ALERT update is below.

    TFred

    ************************************************
    1. Update on Stafford National Night Out
    ************************************************

    I contacted the Target store whose parking lot is going to be used for the Stafford National Night Out tomorrow (Tuesday, August 5th, 6-9 PM at the Stafford Marketplace mall).

    It turns out that the Stafford Sheriff was apparently under the mistaken impression that Target didn’t want to allow open carry in their parking lot during the event. The Target representative handling the event told me that carry was NOT an issue. What the store didn’t want was SOLICITING. That means that flyers, stickers, pamphlets, etc., can only be given to somebody if that person approaches the table on their own and specifically requests the item.

    I told the representative that VCDL would accept the no solicitation policy if we had a table at the event.

    The representative told me that in that case we could have a table.

    I asked the representative to contact the Sheriff and let him know. He said he would.

    I also left a voicemail with the Sheriff’s representative for the event, telling him about the conversation I had with the Target representative.

    NOTE: We have not yet heard back from the Sheriff’s office about the table. Unless something comes up otherwise, however, we are planning on having a table at the event since Target has given us the "go ahead.” (I recorded the conversation with the Target representative to provide proof of Target’s position on both carry and VCDL having a table at the event.)

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Go read it yourself - you are subscribed to get them, aren't you?

    And here I was planning to go up there with bail money at the ready. Think I'll check out some of the events closer to home.

    stay safe.
    With 3 other BoD members planning on being in attendance w/table at Stafford, I too am going to opt for a local event - whole lot less driving.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Complete reversal

    TARGET HAS DONE A 180!

    Target says NO TABLE, NO STICKERS, and NO GUNS.

    We are still going to go, and we will wear stickers and just explain what has transpired to anyone who asks about them. Â We will only be able to tell them about the shenanigans of the Sheriff and of Target, Â (How much you want to bet the two are in cahoots somehow?)

    IF YOU CARRY IT **MUST** BE CONCEALED!.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-05-2014 at 03:23 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    TARGET HAS DONE A 180!

    Target says NO TABLE, NO STICKERS, and NO GUNS.

    We are still going to go, and we will wear stickers and just explain what has transpired to anyone who asks about them. Â We will only be able to tell them about the shenanigans of the Sheriff and of Target, Â (How much you want to bet the two are in cahoots somehow?)

    IF YOU CARRY IT **MUST** BE CONCEALED!.
    no open carry even in parking lots or just target parking lot. I was wondering if a flapped cavalry holster where nothing shows in anyway is concealed. Seems to me it would be, similar as if I was carrying a purse with a gun in it? You cant see the gun in this flapped holster, it may or may not just be an empty holster...what are your thoughts because I was coming tonight. Wheres another event in our part of the universe to attend?
    If you can not move at 1100 fps, then pass me by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    TARGET HAS DONE A 180!

    Target says NO TABLE, NO STICKERS, and NO GUNS.

    We are still going to go, and we will wear stickers and just explain what has transpired to anyone who asks about them. Â We will only be able to tell them about the shenanigans of the Sheriff and of Target, Â (How much you want to bet the two are in cahoots somehow?)

    IF YOU CARRY IT **MUST** BE CONCEALED!.
    I'm pretty sure that Target does not own the parking lot... how are they able to restrict/prohibit the lawful carrying of firearms in a parking lot they do not own?

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Target does not own the parking lot... how are they able to restrict/prohibit the lawful carrying of firearms in a parking lot they do not own?
    I'm too short on time to look it up now, but the claim has been made that Target does in fact own the portion of the lot in front of that store.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Here is the Stafford County Virginia Parcel Viewer

    http://www.staffordcountygis.org/geo...1628.920615572

    The parcel owner should be indicated.

    http://www.staffordcountygis.org/geo...7458.824956214

    As I can determine, this is the owner

    ROUTE 606 STAFFORD LLC
    1359 BEVERLY RD STE 200
    MCLEAN VA 22101-3668

    and the tenants are grantees. What effect that has in VA law I don't know.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-05-2014 at 05:05 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "Own" should be amended to include "leasehold" = under their control.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I'm too short on time to look it up now, but the claim has been made that Target does in fact own the portion of the lot in front of that store.
    Bummer. It appears that Target is the owner. Its Parcel #21S 14 in Stafford County. You can search their property assesments online here:
    http://va-stafford-assessor.publicac...rtySearch.aspx

    And when I search for that Parcel Number.. it gives these results:

    http://va-stafford-assessor.publicac...0%2014&a=41030

    General Info
    TARGET CORPORATION
    PO BOX 9456
    MINNEAPOLIS MN 55440-9456
    Property ID 21S 14
    Alternate ID/PIN 41030
    Address 1090 STAFFORD MARKET PL
    Property Class RETAIL (GENERAL)
    Neighborhood 211900 STAFFORD MARKET PLACE COMMRCL
    Deed Acres 12.4468

    Sales History
    Book Page Doc Num Date Owner Grantee Type Validity Vacant Land Sale Price
    020035292 11/22/2002 ROUTE 606-RESTON LLC TARGET CORPORATION S Valid Yes $3,700,000
    020035292 11/22/2002 ROUTE 606-RESTON LLC TARGET CORPORATION S Valid Yes $3,700,000

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    http://www.staffordcountygis.org/geo...1628.920615572

    The parcel owner should be indicated.

    http://www.staffordcountygis.org/geo...7458.824956214

    As I can determine, this is the owner

    ROUTE 606 STAFFORD LLC
    1359 BEVERLY RD STE 200
    MCLEAN VA 22101-3668

    and the tenants are grantees. What effect that has in VA law I don't know.
    Zoom in more on the map. The Target property is its own property, Parcel #21S 14.

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