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Thread: OT- Missing Bremerton Girl and Warrentless Searches

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    OT- Missing Bremerton Girl and Warrentless Searches

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/F...269982151.html

    I'm waiting for them to publish an article on what I just saw concerning this story.

    The FBI has gotten involved in the search for the missing girl. The thing that caught my attention on the TV is that the FBI says they will be searching every single home in the neighborhood. I believe it's something like 160 houses.

    They said they will have people that tell them they cannot search and those people will be served with Search Warrants.

    They are also searching every car. Residents are being denied entrance to their own neighborhood if they refuse a vehicle search.

    What would you guys do? My gut reaction is that the FBI is violating the Rights of residents. On the flip side I think about the parents. If it were my child I would hope people would allow a search.

    Where do you draw the line? Is it legal and/or ethical for the FBI to get blanket search warrants? What happens when they use one of these warrants and find a small grow op for personal consumption? Will they arrest this person and will the charges be legal?

    This is such a rough situation I have no idea what I would do if I lived there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    [ ... ] Is it legal and/or ethical for the FBI to get blanket search warrants? [ ... ]
    A blanket does not particularly describe anything.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A blanket does not particularly describe anything.
    That's pretty much what I was thinking too. But prosecutors aren't exactly known for actually following the law. Prosecutors in Vancouver come to mind...
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Make them get the warrant. Make them follow the process. Get the damn judges on record if they are issuing warrants without cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by decklin
    ...On the flip side I think about the parents. If it were my child I would hope people would allow a search...
    I'm going to go heartless and remind everyone of the big picture. The Constitution is in place to prevent the personal feelings at the moment from destroying the fabric of American freedom. The parents should never be faced with how they should feel about 5 of their neighbors refusing a search, when 155 did, and the child was never found. Those five PROBABLY STILL INNOCENT neighbors should never feel that kind of pressure.

    That said, kidnappers should be tortured.

    How strong is the evidence that the child is still in the neighborhood?

    What are the limits of proximity to probable cause?
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-05-2014 at 03:45 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Make them get the warrant. Make them follow the process. Get the damn judges on record if they are issuing warrants without cause.


    I'm going to go heartless and remind everyone of the big picture. The Constitution is in place to prevent the personal feelings at the moment from destroying the fabric of American freedom. The parents should never be faced with how they should feel about 5 of their neighbors refusing a search, when 155 did, and the child was never found. Those five PROBABLY STILL INNOCENT neighbors should never feel that kind of pressure.

    That said, kidnappers should be tortured.

    How strong is the evidence that the child is still in the neighborhood?

    What are the limits of proximity to probable cause?
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/F...269982151.html

    I'm waiting for them to publish an article on what I just saw concerning this story.

    The FBI has gotten involved in the search for the missing girl. The thing that caught my attention on the TV is that the FBI says they will be searching every single home in the neighborhood. I believe it's something like 160 houses.

    They said they will have people that tell them they cannot search and those people will be served with Search Warrants.

    They are also searching every car. Residents are being denied entrance to their own neighborhood if they refuse a vehicle search.

    What would you guys do? My gut reaction is that the FBI is violating the Rights of residents. On the flip side I think about the parents. If it were my child I would hope people would allow a search.

    Where do you draw the line? Is it legal and/or ethical for the FBI to get blanket search warrants? What happens when they use one of these warrants and find a small grow op for personal consumption? Will they arrest this person and will the charges be legal?

    This is such a rough situation I have no idea what I would do if I lived there.
    Refuse to allow them to search without a warrant, then pick the warrant apart in court if you can. The FBI is not a person the FBI can not have ethics or morals, having said that the people that work for the FBI should have both ethics and morals, stop concentrating on the FBI and concentrate on the people that work for the FBI they are the ones that are the problem here not the entity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Make them get the warrant. Make them follow the process. Get the damn judges on record if they are issuing warrants without cause.


    I'm going to go heartless and remind everyone of the big picture. The Constitution is in place to prevent the personal feelings at the moment from destroying the fabric of American freedom. The parents should never be faced with how they should feel about 5 of their neighbors refusing a search, when 155 did, and the child was never found. Those five PROBABLY STILL INNOCENT neighbors should never feel that kind of pressure.

    That said, kidnappers should be tortured.

    How strong is the evidence that the child is still in the neighborhood?

    What are the limits of proximity to probable cause?
    Exactly correct well said +2
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

  8. #8
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    This is a little ridiculous. How can there be probable cause for a warrant?
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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to see the supporting material facts section of the affidavits for these warrants.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    If this happened in my area, I would tell them where to stuff their wanting to search my anything.


    No, you may not search my body, home, car, etc.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Have your attorney's business card handy and then present it to the FBI thug(s0 when you refuse to consent to a search, or denied access to your property. Set up cameras in and around your property to record their illegal search while you are barred from your property.

    Record these FBI thugs as you would any cop on the street. What are the implications of you OCing while in a FBI constitution suspended zone?

    I'd be telling every one of those FBI thugs that they will be sitting in a chair, next to a judge, justifying their unconstitutional acts.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Good to see my thinking was the same as the rest of you. I was more than a little surprised at the things I was hearing in the news report.
    I couldn't figure out how anything they were doing was legal. The phrase, "but it's for the children" kept echoing in my head.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Amazes me how people in that story can defend this simply because it involves a little girl, when in any other circumstances, people would be up in arms at the idea of a blanket search warrant being issued. I don't disagree that a little girl being missing is tragic and the likelihood is that she will not be found alive, which is just sickening. But the rights laid out in the Constitution do not change simply because a child becomes missing, or a school shooting occurs, or terrorists want to destroy us. How people cannot see this and think logically is something I will never be able to understand. And people that normally would be the first to cry out how unconstitutional an action is are blind and even aggressively attacking those who speak the truth on this issue, because it involves a child.

    If people think that those in power that seek to remove rights from the populace would never take advantage of a tragedy like this to undermine the rights of individuals, they are both naive and foolish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    I agree with almost all of your post, but I don't believe that "in any other circumstances, people would be up in arms at the idea of a blanket search warrant being issued." The mass, warrant less searches in Boston after the bombings at the Boston Marathon point to another mindset in current day America. People are scared and the government uses that fear to take more and more power. Most people don't even know they can object to this, who they would object to or why they should object to it.
    Most people are ignorant. And unprepared. They still actually believe that the gov't protects our rights. I would not allow them to search my property.

    Sorry, but the life of a little girl is not my concern....and it pales to the 4th amendment in any event
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-06-2014 at 09:30 PM.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    "Officer, if the little girl's parents want to come in and look, I'll put on a pot of coffee. You, however, will wait out there on the stoop."

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    "Officer, if the little girl's parents want to come in and look, I'll put on a pot of coffee. You, however, will wait out there on the stoop."
    Good one!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    "Officer, if the little girl's parents want to come in and look, I'll put on a pot of coffee. You, however, will wait out there on the stoop."
    Perfect!

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    I don't see a blanket warrant as being justified given what we know about occurrences of missing children.

    Most kids that go missing do so on their own by getting lost, or run away. (check the bushes and local parks)
    The majority of abducted children are abducted by someone that is known to the child (get warrants for those homes)
    Child abduction by strangers is exceedingly rare (but they do get quite a bit of press)

    http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/nati...idnapping.html

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    Regular Member TheGunMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Make them get the warrant. Make them follow the process. Get the damn judges on record if they are issuing warrants without cause.


    I'm going to go heartless and remind everyone of the big picture. The Constitution is in place to prevent the personal feelings at the moment from destroying the fabric of American freedom. The parents should never be faced with how they should feel about 5 of their neighbors refusing a search, when 155 did, and the child was never found. Those five PROBABLY STILL INNOCENT neighbors should never feel that kind of pressure.

    That said, kidnappers should be tortured.

    How strong is the evidence that the child is still in the neighborhood?

    What are the limits of proximity to probable cause?
    +3
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    *UPDATE* Child Remains Found Near Search Area

    http://www.king5.com/news/local/Jeni...270317191.html


    The body has not been identified yet.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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  22. #22
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    Sad week.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    http://www.king5.com/news/local/Jeni...270317191.html


    The body has not been identified yet.
    So, many innocent people had their rights violated, under what grounds again?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    It' now getting even better. They are now taking DNA swabs from all the residents.
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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    Sad week.
    Sad? At least it proved warrentless searches solve crimes.

    Oh wait a sec... Never mind.

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