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Thread: Traveling/visiting Michigan in regards to carrying

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    Traveling/visiting Michigan in regards to carrying

    I'll be in Michigan this weekend, coming from Wisconsin, and I've read this link: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-without-a-CPL

    But I still have questions. Coming from Wisconsin, where I can reguarly open carry without permit or license, and where I can keep my firearm in the vehicle as long as it is visible, will I be allowed to open carry in Michigan, or am I still required to register with Michigan, where I don't live?

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    Ok, if I'm reading it right (and it's possible I'm not, I just fix things for a living, I hate reading fine print and babbling legistlature lol), long story short is that I cannot open carry in Michigan without my CCL from Wisconsin?

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 750.227(2)
    A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    Without a Michigan CPL, you can't carry your firearm in the car no matter how visible it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Without a Michigan CPL, you can't carry your firearm in the car no matter how visible it is.
    Which is why this should be a test case as the requirement for a CPL amounts to a complete ban on the possession of a functional firearm for self-defense within a vehicle by certain classes of law-abiding American citizens. Heller clearly established that the complete prohibition of the exercise of a fundamental right is not Constitutional no matter what level of judicial scrutiny is applied.

    I hope a case if put together just as soon as SCOTUS gets around to affirming the obvious meaning of 'bear' arms outside the home. A perfect plaintiff would be a resident of Vermont visiting Michigan or an expatriate U.S. citizen living in Ontario who frequents this state since they would have no legal means to acquire a CPL from their 'home' state and thus face the 'ban'.
    Last edited by OC4me; 08-07-2014 at 02:04 PM.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Actually, I believe Evil and OC4 are slightly in error. If you have a CCL from WI (and I admit, I'm assuming having one of those means you can carry concealed) then yes, you can carry your sidearm openly or concealed, in accordance with MI laws, as MI is a "reciprocity" state where we accept permits and licenses from other states as being valid.

    Without such a license or permit, then your sidearm(s) must be in a gun carry case, mag removed and chamber empty, preferably in the trunk of your car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Actually, I believe Evil and OC4 are slightly in error. If you have a CCL from WI (and I admit, I'm assuming having one of those means you can carry concealed) then yes, you can carry your sidearm openly or concealed, in accordance with MI laws, as MI is a "reciprocity" state where we accept permits and licenses from other states as being valid.

    Without such a license or permit, then your sidearm(s) must be in a gun carry case, mag removed and chamber empty, preferably in the trunk of your car.
    Evil, meant you can't carry a loaded functional firearm immediately accessible for self-defense (as was held to be a fundamental right in the Heller Decision) in Michigan inside a vehicle without a CPL.

    Why am I in error? My post merely pointed out that certain law-abiding Americans face a complete ban on vehicle carry for self-defense while visiting Michigan and that this would be an excellent avenue for litigation (once the Supreme Court settles the public carry issue). I did edit my original post to make it clear that there are indeed U.S. citizens who cannot obtain a CPL from their home state (as required under Michigan law), hence Michigan completely bans them from legally exercising the fundamental right of self defense in a vehicle. It is important to note that it is not necessary for Michigan law to ban self-defense in a car for everybody in order for the statute to be struck down as un-Constitutional, only that it is un-Constitutional for some otherwise law-abiding American citizens.
    Last edited by OC4me; 08-07-2014 at 10:40 AM.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Actually, I believe Evil and OC4 are slightly in error. If you have a CCL from WI (and I admit, I'm assuming having one of those means you can carry concealed) then yes, you can carry your sidearm openly or concealed, in accordance with MI laws, as MI is a "reciprocity" state where we accept permits and licenses from other states as being valid.

    Without such a license or permit, then your sidearm(s) must be in a gun carry case, mag removed and chamber empty, preferably in the trunk of your car.
    Yes, apologies I was slightly in error.

    What I should have said was "Without a Michigan CPL or your 'home state' equivalent"

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    Definitely discouraging. Thanks for the answers gentlemen.

    Just to clarify, open carry outside of the vehicle also requires a Michigan CPL or my homestate equivalent, correct?

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fix everything View Post
    Definitely discouraging. Thanks for the answers gentlemen.

    Just to clarify, open carry outside of the vehicle also requires a Michigan CPL or my homestate equivalent, correct?
    Correct. What states carry license do you have?
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post
    Correct. What states carry license do you have?
    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 28.422 Subsection 8

    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.

    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).

    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.

    (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

    (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state.
    So, that is an 'or'. So if you have, similar to Michigan, a process whereby you obtain a permit to purchase a pistol, or for example some states have open carry permits, or something of that nature, it doesn't necessarily have to be a Concealed Carry permit.

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    So, that is an 'or'. So if you have, similar to Michigan, a process whereby you obtain a permit to purchase a pistol, or for example some states have open carry permits, or something of that nature, it doesn't necessarily have to be a Concealed Carry permit.
    Well I was just trying to find out if he had a license from ANY state. If he did I would explain more. If he doesn't and he coming though Illinois he can't carry at all in Indiana or Michigan.

    Sorry
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    I haven't yet sent in my application for my CCL here in Wisconsin, but we are allowed to open carry without permits.

    If the above post is an a or b or c kind of scenario, then it would seem to me that I can open carry based on the fact that I'm allowed to do so in Wisconsin, as well as I own the firearm that I carry, plus I'm only there for the weekend (less than 180 days).

    I cannot speak for Indiana, but it's my understanding that in Illinois I can carry my weapon in the same fashion as I do in Wisconsin.....as long as I don't leave my vehicle (must be in plain sight).

    I'm not overly worried about my travel through Illinois or Indiana, I won't be stopping between Wisconsin and Michigan. Wont be stopping anywhere until I need fuel in Michigan, and then when I reach my destination.

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fix everything View Post
    If the above post is an a or b or c kind of scenario, then it would seem to me that I can open carry based on the fact that I'm allowed to do so in Wisconsin, as well as I own the firearm that I carry, plus I'm only there for the weekend (less than 180 days).
    The key word is "all". You must follow (a) and (b) also.

    "28.422 ...
    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.

    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).

    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports."


    I cannot speak for Indiana, but it's my understanding that in Illinois I can carry my weapon in the same fashion as I do in Wisconsin.....as long as I don't leave my vehicle (must be in plain sight).
    You are good to conceal in your vehicle through Ill.

    Ill law:
    "HB183 Section 40.
    (e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from
    transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in
    Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her
    vehicle and the non-resident:
    (1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a
    firearm under federal law;
    (2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the
    laws of his or her state or territory of residence; and
    (3) is not in possession of a license under this Act.
    If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended,
    he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or
    locked container within the vehicle in accordance with
    subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act."

    Again sorry get that Wisconsin CCL
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Without a Michigan CPL, you can't carry your firearm in the car no matter how visible it is.
    Actually, the law is voided by Article one, section six, of the Michigan Constitution which explicitly states that

    'Every person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state'.,

    The only way to get a conviction for the possession or use of any item listed in the above cited MCL 750.227, much less a firearm, every single government employee from the arresting officer, to the warden would have to break the oath of office they took in defense of your and my rights from in this case, domestic enemies.

    Political correctness would require us to refer to these types as terrorists.
    Last edited by Plan B; 08-09-2014 at 09:46 PM.

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    ""28.422 ...
    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:"

    Hmmm.....this has got me thinking. Can a non-resident apply for and obtain a Michigan CPL or are only Michigan residents allowed?

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    ""28.422 ...
    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:"

    Hmmm.....this has got me thinking. Can a non-resident apply for and obtain a Michigan CPL or are only Michigan residents allowed?
    MI will only issue licenses to residents.

    Yes we have too many laws... I'm not saying I like them.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post
    Yes we have too many laws... I'm not saying I like them.
    Unconstitutional laws written by domestic enemies can only be enforced by domestic enemies. Political correctness would require us to refer to these types as terrorists.
    Last edited by Plan B; 08-17-2014 at 07:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plan B View Post
    Unconstitutional laws written by domestic enemies can only be enforced by domestic enemies. Political correctness would require us to refer to these types as terrorists.
    While I don't disagree in principle, for the purposes of this thread it might be nice to give our visitor some advice that won't get him arrested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fix everything View Post
    I haven't yet sent in my application for my CCL here in Wisconsin, but we are allowed to open carry without permits.



    If the above post is an a or b or c kind of scenario, then it would seem to me that I can open carry based on the fact that I'm allowed to do so in Wisconsin, as well as I own the firearm that I carry, plus I'm only there for the weekend (less than 180 days).



    I cannot speak for Indiana, but it's my understanding that in Illinois I can carry my weapon in the same fashion as I do in Wisconsin.....as long as I don't leave my vehicle (must be in plain sight).



    I'm not overly worried about my travel through Illinois or Indiana, I won't be stopping between Wisconsin and Michigan. Wont be stopping anywhere until I need fuel in Michigan, and then when I reach my destination.

    in Illinois you may only possess an unloaded concealed firearm outside your vehicle in the immediate vicinity and only for the purpose of storing in in a container in the trunk. I just came back from Chitcago a few days ago and brushed up on the laws.

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    in Illinois you may only possess an unloaded concealed firearm outside your vehicle in the immediate vicinity and only for the purpose of storing in in a container in the trunk. I just came back from Chitcago a few days ago and brushed up on the laws.
    ...and only outside your vehicle in the parking lots of their GFZ's and only with an Ill license.

    Just keep your empty gun case in the front seat with you for if you need to get it to your trunk.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    While I don't disagree in principle, for the purposes of this thread it might be nice to give our visitor some advice that won't get him arrested.
    Sure, but he seemed smart enough to know the difference. However accurate it may be.

    We need to start living by our principles...
    Last edited by Plan B; 08-18-2014 at 10:54 PM.

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    I ran into someone like you the other day online. Kept rightously arguing that the 2nd Amendment is all you needed, and was prattling on about Acts are not Laws, and something about two different States of Michigan and Maritime law.

    Going all Constitutional is fine and all, but I try and keep at least one foot in reality, lest both feet end up in prison.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey-r View Post
    I ran into someone like you the other day online. Kept rightously arguing that the 2nd Amendment is all you needed, and was prattling on about Acts are not Laws, and something about two different States of Michigan and Maritime law.

    Going all Constitutional is fine and all, but I try and keep at least one foot in reality, lest both feet end up in prison.
    Saw that video did you ;D

    Yeah I was talking to that guy too... its kind of impossible to have a reasonable discussion with him.

    'Scienzoflyfe' I believe, if we're referring to the same individual.

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