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Cops Kill Man In Wal-Mart Carrying An Air Rifle That He Might Have Planned To Buy

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sheepdog

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Where does it explain that?

"According to WHIO, 37-year-old Angela D. Williams was at the store at the time and collapsed while running away from the situation. She was taken to the hospital and pronounced dead. The coroner's office reported that Williams had a medical condition which was the cause of her death. The woman's coworkers told the station she was to be married on Saturday."

"...while running away from the situation."

Which situation? The man with the toy gun, or the police shooting the man with the toy gun?

...the Fox link from above is more specific than the CBS...but neither says for sure http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...-shot-by-police-in-wal-mart-store-was-waving/
 

The Truth

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I don't know the justification for the shooting, more information needed. What I do know is healthy people, or people in fair health do not just keel over from short term stress or even pain. A person must be on deaths door for that to happen, now it may have speed up what was already happening, heart disease, but you are talking probably no more than a month or so.

I have a weak heart, though not as bad as some and worse than most. My EF after surgery and before DF/pacemaker was implanted was less than 30%. And I didn't die after the surgery even considering I woke up during surgery. Talk about stress having your whole chest split open, tied down, and tubes in your throat so you can't call out for help. Long term stress is a killer, it is one of those factors that increases the production of fat in the blood. Not a doctor but I have had it explained to me enough times by doctors. Lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, stress, weight, eating habits as well as family history bring on heart disease, but this is all long term. One incident of stress did not kill her, she was going to die, IMO her death cannot be blamed on police, even if they unjustly shot the young man.

I'm inclined to agree to an extent, but part of me truly believes that it's perfectly feasible for a civilian to have a coronary if they are shot at and truly are afraid that they might be executed. A prior condition may soften the blow in regards to liability, but it's really hard to deny that stress was a factor in the woman's death, and the cops opening fire caused that stress. If I were a lawyer I would most definitely take the case.

Take this example, for instance:

You get into a scuffle with a man who has had surgery to repair his jaw, and he has a weakened bone structure in his face. You throw the first punch (stupidly) and shatter his face and jaw with one punch, causing serious injury. You are arrested and charged with Felony Assault and Battery of a High and Aggravated Nature. Is the charge dropped to a lesser charge solely on the basis that the victim had a weakened bone structure that you weren't aware of that contributed to the serious injury? Does it even matter?
 
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Hareuhal

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...the Fox link from above is more specific than the CBS...but neither says for sure http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...-shot-by-police-in-wal-mart-store-was-waving/

Yes, I definitely more information is needed. But even as WalkingWolf stated, it might not matter. I personally believe there is a case there, should it turn up that she died as a result of running away immediately following the sounds of the police firing if the shooting is not justified, and I think a lawyer would have a fairly good case. Then again, I'm not a lawyer so what do I know! :p
 

sheepdog

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...this is one where the store security cameras really need to have been working well...if they were, they'll tell the story...
 

color of law

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This guy is from Cincinnati and if it is the same guy he has/had pending charges against him pending from a year ago.
COMPLICITY-ORC-2923-03
CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS-ORC-2923-12
RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY-ORC-2913-51

I said "had" because if it is him those charges will be/were dismissed.

The case docket shows the charges as ignored.
 

JoeSparky

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In most states (all?) if it looks like a real gun and the actions of the person carrying it are perceived as an immediate serious threat, then use of deadly force is justified/excusable.

Adding to: 911 reports per the OP linked article of "pointing" the gun at 2 kids....

Not saying he DESERVED to die, but if the reports are accurate and he did actually point the gun at 2 kids (never point/aim at anything you are not willing to destroy) and then failed to follow the instructions of the police....

Question: Just how much time transpired between him being told to drop the weapon and the firing of the shots?
 

JediSkipdogg

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Adding to: 911 reports per the OP linked article of "pointing" the gun at 2 kids....

Not saying he DESERVED to die, but if the reports are accurate and he did actually point the gun at 2 kids (never point/aim at anything you are not willing to destroy) and then failed to follow the instructions of the police....

Question: Just how much time transpired between him being told to drop the weapon and the firing of the shots?

What I'm reading now is not much. This is from putting a few sources together. They supposedly told him to drop the weapon to which he replied it's not real and they said drop it again and he started to turn towards the officers. The officers took the turning as a threat since he hadn't dropped the weapon and therefore returned fire with two shots, dropping the subject. He tried to get back up, and that's when they tackled him.

Essentially, it was the act of turning with the rifle still in his hands that cost him his life. To him it was fake, but at the time, nobody knew that.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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northern wis
He Just might have been planning suicide by cop.

The actions of some people Just can't be explained.

We just don't know why he did what he did and might never know.

We can speculate all we want until more evidence is in that is what it is speculation.

I would like to see the video footage if there is any. Tox screening ect

My nephew who worked lost prevention at Wal mart told me not all areas are cover by cameras only the really high theft products are. That information is a couple years old and each store is most likely different.

I can they this for sure stupid, crazy, drug users and drunk people do not do rational things.

When real firearms are pointed at you it is not the time to discuss or argue with the people pointing them at you
 
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WalkingWolf

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Problem is until we see video we do not know if he gun was pointed at anyone. The callers very well could have been MDA folk or supporters who followed Shannon Watts directive. Specifically to lie to 911 to get OCers hurt or killed. It does seem strange that someone would be OCing a pellet rifle, but again we do not know if the rifle was purchased in store or being returned. Until answers are forthcoming it is just not wise to make any determination.
 

The Truth

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If some one ever points a real or real looking gun at you I hope you have the presents of mine to ask is that real or is it a toy.

Do you really plan to shoot me or are you just fooling around.

Stupid people win stupid prizes.

I suggest you watch your hasty tongue, sir - before you make yourself out to be something you're not. There's no reason to insult me at all. You don't know any more about the case than I do.
 

JoeSparky

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The ELEPHANT in the room on this situation for me especially, and I assume for many others on this forum is the significant difference of "REASONABLE" between mere lawfully armed persons and many who wear those strange costumes, with badges, and are employee by certain political subdivisions.
 

wimwag

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I suggest you watch your hasty tongue, sir - before you make yourself out to be something you're not. There's no reason to insult me at all. You don't know any more about the case than I do.


Don't make me put you over my knee, boy.
 

JediSkipdogg

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Batavia
Problem is until we see video we do not know if he gun was pointed at anyone. The callers very well could have been MDA folk or supporters who followed Shannon Watts directive. Specifically to lie to 911 to get OCers hurt or killed. It does seem strange that someone would be OCing a pellet rifle, but again we do not know if the rifle was purchased in store or being returned. Until answers are forthcoming it is just not wise to make any determination.

I think that's kind of obvious. Girlfriend has already come out and said he didn't have a gun upon entering the store. Then the empty box was recovered in the sporting goods area in the rear of the store and the gun and shooting were recovered in the pet section in the front of the store. I would say he wasn't returning or purchasing. If you plan on purchasing, you kind of take the box with you.
 
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