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Open carry bill for 2015

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
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Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
as for stealth, i hope it is echoing really loud now!!

ipse

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Dare I ask you to clarify? You don't have the best track record of being able to articulate an opinion, nor the best track record of having a meaningful opinion to try and articulate.
 

stealthyeliminator

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Texas
A bill passing is obviously a strong indicator of support, but a bill failing is not necessarily indicative of lack of support. As I explained in my first post, the Texas Legislature is designed to kill bills, and popular bills die every session.

A more accurate indicator of support (or lack thereof) will be the number of legislators who sign on as coauthors in the early weeks of the session. This isn't a perfect indicator--NRA-sponsored bills get a lot of coauthors by default, and fence sitters sometimes pad their NRA ratings by putting their names on doomed bills they actually oppose (particularly near the end of the session)--but it's probably the best indicator we have. You can also look at the number of legislators speaking out publicly on the issue, the number of similar bills filed, and the speed with which the bills work their way through the committee process. If we see several open carry bills, each with a lot (dozens) of coauthors who are more than willing to speak publicly about their support of open carry, I'll have to admit that I was wrong in claiming that the spate of bad publicity significantly eroded support. But that still won't mean the bad publicity didn't doom the bills. Remember, even a minor erosion of support could be enough to kill open carry--if the bad publicity turns off the Speaker (a real possibility), the chair of the House committee to which the bill is assigned, the chair of the House Calendars Committee, the lieutenant governor (unlikely), the chair of the Senate committee to which the bill is assigned, the governor (unlikely), or just eleven Senators (there will most likely be twelve Democrats), the bill is unlikely to pass. People without experience in these matters tend to focus on getting more than 50% support in both chambers (at least 76 votes in the House and at least 16 votes in the Senate), but that's actually a very small part of it. Even a bill with 60% support in both chambers is far from a sure thing.

I've spoken with representatives of four or five gun-rights organizations who are worried that the bad publicity is going to damage not only open carry legislation but ALL gun-rights legislation. These groups range in size/stature from large and well-funded to small and volunteer-based. These are experienced, engaged gun-rights lobbyists/activists who, unlike most of the people inside the open carry echo chamber, actually know where the restrooms are located in the Capitol. They not only understand the legislative process; they understand public relations. Unlike the open carry activists who keep blaming media bias for the glut of bad publicity, they understand that media bias and media incompetence are an ever-present part of the equation. A media savvy organization plans for media bias and incompetence at every step of the way. A media savvy organization doesn't complain that the media didn't accurately report the group's motivation for visiting a fast food restaurant with rifles slung at the low ready; a media savvy organization recognizes up-front that such actions could be misconstrued and steers clear of those types of questionable tactics. These lobbyists/activists understand that a group's public image is the only image most legislators care about when it comes time to support or oppose the group's bill. Legislators aren't going to cut a group slack because its members meant well. If supporting the group is going to cost a legislator votes on election day, he or she is going to find a way to, at the very least, avoid dealing with the group's issue (this is where the dreaded Calendars Committee comes into play--a lot of legislators rely on their friends on the Calendars Committee to help them avoid voting on bills they'd rather not support or oppose).

If open carry activists want legislators to take them seriously and want established gun-rights groups to quit treating them as pariahs, they need to stop making dumb PR moves and quit finding ways to publicly demonstrate their ignorance and naivety. Seeking out controversy is NOT the way to get legislators to align themselves with your cause (an armed march through Houston's Fifth Ward would neither win over fence sitters nor discredit opponents; it would be a meaningless publicity stunt). Allowing members to pursue/confront opponents is NOT the way to get legislators to align themselves with your cause (when I was in a leadership position with a gun-rights group, a supporter who followed an opponent to his/her car or posted an opponent's contact information online would have been barred from future participation with our group; if the story had gone public, we would have immediately put out a press release denouncing the supporter's actions and explaining what steps had been taken to prevent a repeat occurrence). Asking members to demand that their legislators support legislation that is objectively unpassable is NOT the way to get legislators to align themselves with your cause (nothing screams, "Amateurs!" like promoting legislation that reads as if it were written by someone who has never even read, much less written, a filed bill). These aren't arbitrary rules just waiting to be broken by a group of rebels; these are laws of nature that are only denied by lunatics. Right now, it's as if a certain faction of the open carry movement has decided that gravity doesn't apply to them.

There's a lot of opinion here, which you are certainly entitled to, and I'm sure much of your post is completely accurate, but you still seem to have a hard time refraining from unfounded accusations and the positioning of your personal opinion as fact. You could have made a perfectly reasonable post had you not once again succumbed to your elitist, "I'm more experienced, I know more about this topic than you, so I can assert my personal opinions as fact" attitude. What, specifically, am I referring to?

First of all, you're generalizing group orientations too broadly. In most cases this might not make a difference, but since you're using this to criticize certain groups then accuracy becomes more important. Your distinctions between "gun rights groups" and "open carry groups" are not accurate. Any gun rights group should be pro-open carry and any open carry group should naturally be considered a gun rights group. If the groups you speak of do not support passing open carry, then their classification as gun rights groups must be called into question. I am speaking specifically of the TSRA and the NRA.

You say we're appearing as amateurs for posting this bill online for others to read, because it isn't well-written enough. Perhaps if you were a gun rights activist and you had near the experience and knowledge you assert, you'd simply offer suggestions on improving the bill instead of offering the most nonconstructive criticisms you can find.

You assert that gun rights groups that are advocating for open carry seek out controversy. That is false. You assert that an event at 5th ward is nothing but a publicity stunt, from which no benefit could possibly arise. That is false. What benefit could arise? Hell man, if you only took the time to read anything about the organization you're criticizing or anything about their plans for the event then you would already know. The less fortunate can be helped through donations, which is planned. The people in 5th ward can be given an opportunity to break the ice on exercising their rights to equip themselves for self-defense, given an opportunity to assert their rights in the face of being discouraged by others from doing so. The people can be shown how to properly equip themselves, they can be shown gun safety and respect, they can be encouraged to do all of these things. That must be where the confusion lies, you see none of these benefits are direct toward OCT, these benefits are direct toward the community. OCT does not exist just to benefit OCT. Perhaps that is what actually sets them apart from your long-time organizations that have managed to position themselves. "Allowing members to pursue/confront opponents" I'm not aware of any gun rights organization in Texas allowing this, as you say. I'm sure it's happened, and I'm sure it was addressed and you simply didn't bother to follow up and find out. Moreover, with this statement, since I believe I know which video you're referring to, it is even more obvious your desire to use minor inaccuracies to criticize these groups in as nonconstructive a manner as possible. You want to take all of these gun rights organizations that you don't like, lump them into their own categorization, then cumulate every fault you can find with any of them and apply those criticisms to the entire categorization while being as discouraging as possible. You assert that we complain about media bias - no, not really. We criticize those that are ignorant enough to accept an inaccurate media report. You assert that we visit fast food restaurants with rifles slung at low ready, this is a contradiction, it's either slung or at low ready, and we've not visited fast food restaurants with rifles at low ready, though only minor criticism would be justified even if that were the case. This is now tiresome. Let's move to closing.

In closing, I would just like to say that I'm sorry you've been unable to piggy-back knife rights onto the open-carry movement, but I don't think that justifies your lashing out. Have a nice day, open carry opponents.
 

solus

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I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Dare I ask you to clarify? You don't have the best track record of being able to articulate an opinion, nor the best track record of having a meaningful opinion to try and articulate.

to respond to your query, please allow me to rephrase your recent sentiment: quote There's a lot of opinion here, which you are certainly entitled to, and I'm sure much of your post is completely accurate, but you still seem to have a hard time refraining from unfounded accusations and the positioning of your personal opinion as fact. You could have made a perfectly reasonable post had you not once again succumbed to your elitist.... unquote stealtheliminator.

your rhetoric opinion(s) are obviously prolific throughout the forum and yet you still condescendingly blast others, as posting their opinions as lairs, mis-staters of facts, etc., all with the impertinence your's are the only thoughts that matter.

please control your impulses and follow your own advice and cease: 'unfounded accusations and the positioning of your personal opinion as fact' it would be much appreciated...

ipse
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
to respond to your query, please allow me to rephrase your recent sentiment: quote There's a lot of opinion here, which you are certainly entitled to, and I'm sure much of your post is completely accurate, but you still seem to have a hard time refraining from unfounded accusations and the positioning of your personal opinion as fact. You could have made a perfectly reasonable post had you not once again succumbed to your elitist.... unquote stealtheliminator.

your rhetoric opinion(s) are obviously prolific throughout the forum and yet you still condescendingly blast others, as posting their opinions as lairs, mis-staters of facts, etc., all with the impertinence your's are the only thoughts that matter.

please control your impulses and follow your own advice and cease: 'unfounded accusations and the positioning of your personal opinion as fact' it would be much appreciated...

ipse

When I post opinion and statements without evidence I try to be very careful to frame it as such. So yes, it bothers me a great deal when others seem to spend so little effort to do the same, or actually purposefully do the opposite.

I don't believe you can say that I'm being a hypocrite, and framing my own opinions as fact when they are not... Even in this thread, if you care to check my first post, I tried to be careful to preface unverifiable statements as exactly that, and careful to mark opinion as opinion.

Also keep in mind that as far as opinions go, I'm free to disagree with anything he says, and I'm free to support my disagreement or not... If I disagree, decline to support my disagreement, and then he criticizes me for offering no support for my disagreement that I doubt you'd find me complaining about it, though...
 
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SteveInCO

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May 3, 2013
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El Paso County, Colorado
StealthyEliminator,

What would (hypothetically) have to happen before you were willing to believe that perhaps the open carry events in Texas have hurt not just the chances of open carry passing, but also other pro-gun legislation? What would it take to convince you that these events have harmed carriers in other states? Is there any hypothetical circumstance under which you might question your belief that they have not?
 

stealthyeliminator

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Messages
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Texas
StealthyEliminator,

What would (hypothetically) have to happen before you were willing to believe that perhaps the open carry events in Texas have hurt not just the chances of open carry passing, but also other pro-gun legislation? What would it take to convince you that these events have harmed carriers in other states? Is there any hypothetical circumstance under which you might question your belief that they have not?

We'd have to first agree on what it means to hurt the movement. For instance, some might say that doing anything which a media organization publishes a negative article covering is 'hurting the cause.' It may not be very disputable that negative articles have been published; what would be more disputable, for instance, is the impact of those negative articles, and where the responsibility for the publishing of the article lies. Some might assume that a negative article being published will necessarily result in a surge of negative public opinion, and others might argue that the effect is actually that more people on either side raise their voices to express the sentiments they already had. To rephrase, one person might argue that the result is more people being on one or the other side of the line in the sand, when another might argue that the result is that the line in the sand is more clearly defined and where people already stood is now visible. I suppose even then you'd still have to argue whether or not that effect could qualify as hurting the movement.

For another example, let's say hypothetically the TSRA or a representative of the TSRA says they support open carry in theory, but they refuse to promote or advocate open carry legislation because they don't want to be associated with other organizations in Texas that promote or advocate for open carry... You might argue that those "other organizations" hurt the cause because they've performed some action which has resulted in the TSRA refusing to support open carry legislation. Another might argue that the TSRA's refusal is not a result of other organizations but that the TSRA should take responsibility for their own positions and own the fact that they have little or no desire to promote open carry, and that perhaps they're just using other organizations as a scape goat to perpetuate their long-standing position on open carry. Bear in mind that this entire paragraph was framed as a hypothetical and I'm not, here, accusing the TSRA of having an anti-open carry position.
 
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SteveInCO

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Location
El Paso County, Colorado
We'd have to first agree on what it means to hurt the movement. For instance, some might say that doing anything which a media organization publishes a negative article covering is 'hurting the cause.'

A valid consideration; we have to be on the same page as to what we are talking about.

Let me assure you that mere bad publicity wouldn't be an issue for me. Bad publicity that has the effect of causing politicians to shy away from pro-gun stances and deciding not to help pass pro-gun bills because they are now afraid of an anti-gun backlash from their constituents, on the other hand, would meet my concept of "hurting the movement."

More broadly, "hurting the movement" would include but not be limited to: "reducing the chances of pro-gun legislation passing and/or increasing the chances of anti-gun legislation passing." I would also include "causing private business owners to request that guns not be carried in their establishments" (and I don't much care whether the request or sign has force of law, since I respect the rights of property owners). The latter is not a political loss but it makes being unarmed more the norm and societal expectation than it used to be, the exact opposite of our goal.

So do you agree that one or the other, or both of these:

"reducing the chances of pro-gun legislation passing and/or increasing the chances of anti-gun legislation passing."​

"causing private business owners to request that guns not be carried in their establishments"​

would constitute harm to the movement?

I'm going to push aside for the moment your TSRA hypothetical, because it highlights a different logical issue than this one.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I just want to say good luck Texas. If all else fails you can move to Oklahoma.

Actually, I'm worried there are many in Texas not on the front lines of this battle who might see Oklahoma's current state (recently adopted) as an acceptable "compromise:" one that still REQUIRES A LICENSE from the state for exercising a PRIVILEGE to be armed. I really hope Texans don't accept this.
 
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Bladed

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
24
Location
Austin
There's a lot of opinion here, which you are certainly entitled to, and I'm sure much of your post is completely accurate, but you still seem to have a hard time refraining from unfounded accusations and the positioning of your personal opinion as fact. You could have made a perfectly reasonable post had you not once again succumbed to your elitist, "I'm more experienced, I know more about this topic than you, so I can assert my personal opinions as fact" attitude. What, specifically, am I referring to?

ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...


First of all, you're generalizing group orientations too broadly. In most cases this might not make a difference, but since you're using this to criticize certain groups then accuracy becomes more important. Your distinctions between "gun rights groups" and "open carry groups" are not accurate. Any gun rights group should be pro-open carry and any open carry group should naturally be considered a gun rights group. If the groups you speak of do not support passing open carry, then their classification as gun rights groups must be called into question. I am speaking specifically of the TSRA and the NRA.

Yes, what this debate really needed was a discussion of the semantics of "gun rights groups" verses "open carry groups." Certainly, the rest of the readers understood that I was using "gun rights groups" to refer to general gun rights organizations or gun rights organizations that focus on issues other than open carry and that I was using "open carry groups" to refer to groups that focus on open carry, but don't let that stop you from throwing the classic Hail Mary pass of parsing your opponent's language for anything that can be misconstrued/misrepresented.

You say we're appearing as amateurs for posting this bill online for others to read, because it isn't well-written enough. Perhaps if you were a gun rights activist and you had near the experience and knowledge you assert, you'd simply offer suggestions on improving the bill instead of offering the most nonconstructive criticisms you can find.

To be clear, you didn't just post your model legislation for others to read; you urged followers to forward it to their state legislators and demand to know if those lawmakers intend to support it (FYI, I doubt the clerk would even let a legislator file it in its current form, so this might be a tad early to start demanding support). I have neither the time nor inclination to offer OCT advice that will be brushed off just like every other piece of good advice your organization has been offered. I'm too busy working on bills for groups that are helping, rather than hurting, the gun rights movement (a task that is doubly hard this session because we have to make sure our bills aren't written so broadly as to serve as potential vehicles for an open carry amendment/death sentence).

You assert that gun rights groups that are advocating for open carry seek out controversy. That is false. You assert that an event at 5th ward is nothing but a publicity stunt, from which no benefit could possibly arise. That is false. What benefit could arise? Hell man, if you only took the time to read anything about the organization you're criticizing or anything about their plans for the event then you would already know. The less fortunate can be helped through donations, which is planned. The people in 5th ward can be given an opportunity to break the ice on exercising their rights to equip themselves for self-defense, given an opportunity to assert their rights in the face of being discouraged by others from doing so. The people can be shown how to properly equip themselves, they can be shown gun safety and respect, they can be encouraged to do all of these things. That must be where the confusion lies, you see none of these benefits are direct toward OCT, these benefits are direct toward the community. OCT does not exist just to benefit OCT. Perhaps that is what actually sets them apart from your long-time organizations that have managed to position themselves. "Allowing members to pursue/confront opponents" I'm not aware of any gun rights organization in Texas allowing this, as you say. I'm sure it's happened, and I'm sure it was addressed and you simply didn't bother to follow up and find out. Moreover, with this statement, since I believe I know which video you're referring to, it is even more obvious your desire to use minor inaccuracies to criticize these groups in as nonconstructive a manner as possible. You want to take all of these gun rights organizations that you don't like, lump them into their own categorization, then cumulate every fault you can find with any of them and apply those criticisms to the entire categorization while being as discouraging as possible. You assert that we complain about media bias - no, not really. We criticize those that are ignorant enough to accept an inaccurate media report. You assert that we visit fast food restaurants with rifles slung at low ready, this is a contradiction, it's either slung or at low ready, and we've not visited fast food restaurants with rifles at low ready, though only minor criticism would be justified even if that were the case. This is now tiresome. Let's move to closing.

I'm not sure what reality you live in where open carry activists haven't sought controversy, where open carry activists haven't harassed opponents, where open carry activists haven't blamed all of their bad publicity on media bias, where the Fifth Ward event was about anything more than saying, "F*** YOU!" to opponents who criticized OCT for only marching in affluent white neighborhoods, and where that event had any chance of being anything other than a public relations disaster, but you're not living in the same reality occupied by the legislators who'll be [strike]voting on your bill[/strike] letting your bill die in committee.

In closing, I would just like to say that I'm sorry you've been unable to piggy-back knife rights onto the open-carry movement, but I don't think that justifies your lashing out. Have a nice day, open carry opponents.

I see that your strong disdain for unfounded accusations didn't stop you from closing with one of your own. The truth is that I (like most members of the gun/weapon rights community) wouldn't touch your legislative kryptonite with a ten-foot pole. Knife rights are only one of the issues I care about, but it's worth noting that last session, while open carry was dying a very undignified death in committee, both of the knife rights bills made it out of committee, and one was passed and signed into law. Therefore, I think the knife rights folks are doing just fine without open carry's help.

Your inability to end this discussion on anything other than a silly cheap shot speaks to the heart of the problem with the Texas open carry movement--it's run by children.
 

Bladed

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When I post opinion and statements without evidence I try to be very careful to frame it as such. So yes, it bothers me a great deal when others seem to spend so little effort to do the same, or actually purposefully do the opposite.

When adults have a discussion, it is assumed that all involved can distinguish fact from opinion.

"That is a bad bill." = OPINION
"That bill died in committee." = FACT​

It's also assumed that all involved understand the value of informed opinions, or assessments, drawn from a knowledgeable individual's analysis of the available facts.

"Given the recent controversy and the likelihood of a deeply partisan session, that bill has little chance of garnering the two-thirds support necessary to receive a floor vote in the Senate." = INFORMED OPINION/ASSESSMENT

If you think this is too much for your crowd to process, I can try to dig up some of those Opinion vs. Fact worksheets we did in fifth grade.
 

Bladed

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Messages
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We'd have to first agree on what it means to hurt the movement. For instance, some might say that doing anything which a media organization publishes a negative article covering is 'hurting the cause.' It may not be very disputable that negative articles have been published; what would be more disputable, for instance, is the impact of those negative articles, and where the responsibility for the publishing of the article lies. Some might assume that a negative article being published will necessarily result in a surge of negative public opinion, and others might argue that the effect is actually that more people on either side raise their voices to express the sentiments they already had. To rephrase, one person might argue that the result is more people being on one or the other side of the line in the sand, when another might argue that the result is that the line in the sand is more clearly defined and where people already stood is now visible. I suppose even then you'd still have to argue whether or not that effect could qualify as hurting the movement.

For another example, let's say hypothetically the TSRA or a representative of the TSRA says they support open carry in theory, but they refuse to promote or advocate open carry legislation because they don't want to be associated with other organizations in Texas that promote or advocate for open carry... You might argue that those "other organizations" hurt the cause because they've performed some action which has resulted in the TSRA refusing to support open carry legislation. Another might argue that the TSRA's refusal is not a result of other organizations but that the TSRA should take responsibility for their own positions and own the fact that they have little or no desire to promote open carry, and that perhaps they're just using other organizations as a scape goat to perpetuate their long-standing position on open carry. Bear in mind that this entire paragraph was framed as a hypothetical and I'm not, here, accusing the TSRA of having an anti-open carry position.

So, in your mind, open carry activists can't possibly have hurt open carry, because only outsiders' reactions to open carry activists could possibly hurt open carry--does that about sum it up? You guys were just doing your thing, and everybody else hurt open carry by overreacting?

I didn't start the argument by calling his wife a bitch; he started the argument by overreacting to me calling his wife a bitch. Clearly, he's just not as strong a supporter of the First Amendment as he likes to claim he is.​
Again, I'm not sure what reality you're living in, but I doubt there are enough lawmakers on your side of the looking glass to give that logic any credence come January.
 

Bladed

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As you can see from my post count, I don't frequent this forum. In fact, I only happened upon this thread because it turned up in a Google search.

I responded to Grapeshot's question with as impersonal an analysis as I could offer, and I did my best to answer stealthyeliminator's increasingly irrational questions and accusations. At this point, I've dedicated more time to this discussion than I had to spare, and I feel certain that any further contributions would continue to bounce off the aforementioned echo chamber.

Hopefully, 2015 will turn out to be a good year for Texas gun rights advocates, and all of this will turn out to have been nothing more than pointless worrying. With that, I bid you adieu.
 

stealthyeliminator

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So, in your mind, open carry activists can't possibly have hurt open carry, because only outsiders' reactions to open carry activists could possibly hurt open carry--does that about sum it up? You guys were just doing your thing, and everybody else hurt open carry by overreacting?

I didn't start the argument by calling his wife a bitch; he started the argument by overreacting to me calling his wife a bitch. Clearly, he's just not as strong a supporter of the First Amendment as he likes to claim he is.​
Again, I'm not sure what reality you're living in, but I doubt there are enough lawmakers on your side of the looking glass to give that logic any credence come January.

The stark contrast between your reaction to that post and the reaction of the person that I was actually addressing is interesting. His take from my post was apparently "A valid consideration; we have to be on the same page as to what we are talking about." which I believe was a pretty good assessment. I wonder why your assessment was so different? Maybe because you are looking to come and assert negative, nonconstructive opinion as conclusive and then dismiss questioning of your assertions with something along the lines of, I can frame it however I want and people should be smart enough to figure out for themselves which I actually have reason to believe and which I'm just being a jerk about...

I believe it's obvious that you have come here with strong predetermined opposition to gun rights organizations in Texas that are advocating for open carry. Even in your final posts you amazingly continue to bash with inaccurate accusations toward these groups that you are criticizing (edit: and even me personally - "you urged followers to forward it to their state legislators and demand to know if those lawmakers intend to support it" - obviously incorrect)...

As you have, I've spent more time in this discussion that I'd like, so instead of picking out each of these baseless and uninformed opinions/accusations again let's hope that you are actually right and that readers are able to identify these themselves.

If you would like an apology for me being a jerk to you, I'll give you one. The bottom line is simply that I do believe your criticisms are unfairly harsh and nonconstructive.
 
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solus

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here nc
bladed, that has been his contention since the beginning the TX antics haven't damaged any type of OC reputation across the nation, it is other, unnamed, idiot savants doing the damage.

the second being everyone who speaks out against his opinion, which to his credit he strongly believe in because he believes and presents it as fact, but unless you are in exact step with him everyone else is misrepresenting, lying, corrupting, distorting, etc., their position and those person(s) are ultimately damaging his cause celebre.

this individual, then resorts to condescending reactions & name calling against any poster to diminish their post challenging their Gospel.

but alas you are discerning this mentality yourself...

snowballs chance in he!! of even being considered by the TX GA is my wager...

ipse
 
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SteveInCO

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Messages
297
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
bladed, that has been his contention since the beginning the TX antics haven't damaged any type of OC reputation across the nation, it is other, unnamed, idiot savants doing the damage.

the second being everyone who speaks out against his opinion, which to his credit he strongly believe in because he believes and presents it as fact, but unless you are in exact step with him everyone else is misrepresenting, lying, corrupting, distorting, etc., their position and those person(s) are ultimately damaging his cause celebre.

this individual, then resorts to condescending reactions & name calling against any poster to diminish their post challenging their Gospel.

but alas you are discerning this mentality yourself...

snowballs chance in he!! of even being considered by the TX GA is my wager...

ipse

I'm having a hard time figuring out who you are agreeing with. You're alleging one of the parties is name-calling and condescending, and accusing people of misrepresenting and lying. But since you've used almost nothing but pronouns, I'm not sure which one and both of them have leveled similar accusations against the other. You started with "Bladed," are you addressing him, or starting a sentence accusing Bladed?
 

SteveInCO

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The stark contrast between your reaction to that post and the reaction of the person that I was actually addressing is interesting.

He probably read your TSRA hypothetical (which I pushed aside for the nonce) and over-reacted. (Admittedly, if you had presented it as factual, not hypothetical, I might have had a similar--but less dramatic--reaction.)

You know, much like many OCers will overreact to someone complaining about the Chipotle duo's specific behavior, and assume the complainer is condemning any and all open carry, rather than just the stupid way two people did it for the camera. (That causes people who might otherwise agree that they were idiots, to feel obligated to defend them anyway.)
 

stealthyeliminator

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bladed, that has been his contention since the beginning the TX antics haven't damaged any type of OC reputation across the nation, it is other, unnamed, idiot savants doing the damage.

the second being everyone who speaks out against his opinion, which to his credit he strongly believe in because he believes and presents it as fact, but unless you are in exact step with him everyone else is misrepresenting, lying, corrupting, distorting, etc., their position and those person(s) are ultimately damaging his cause celebre.

this individual, then resorts to condescending reactions & name calling against any poster to diminish their post challenging their Gospel.

but alas you are discerning this mentality yourself...

snowballs chance in he!! of even being considered by the TX GA is my wager...

ipse

Condescension and name calling don't diminish another or their posts. What's unspecified is criticisms, they're generic, unspecific and unhelpful.
 
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