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Thread: Michael Brown unarmed shooting in Ferguson, MO

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Michael Brown unarmed shooting in Ferguson, MO

    Did a quick forum search and found nothing, thought it should be shared here. Remember though, investigation is pending, so there are no opinions allowed whatsoever regarding the case as per unwritten forum rules. However, to make it relevant to OC, I'll pose this question: If you saw this happen to a friend you were walking with and you were carrying, OC or CC, would you defend yourself and your friend with force?

    *disclaimer: I hate the mainstream media. The accounts and subsequent comments by CNN reek of race-baiting in sad attempts to continue to subdivide people into groups. There has been considerable protest and rioting in Ferguson, unfortunately including looting of local businesses.

    An eyewitness account:

    "Dorian Johnson, 22, told CNN that he and Brown were walking in the middle of the street when a white male officer pulled up and told them, "Get the f*** on the sidewalk." The young men replied that they were "not but a minute away from our destination, and we would shortly be out of the street," Johnson said.

    The officer drove forward but stopped and backed up, almost hitting the pair, Johnson said.

    "We were so close, almost inches away, that when he tried to open his door aggressively, the door ricocheted both off me and Big Mike's body and closed back on the officer," Johnson said.

    Still in his car, the officer then grabbed Brown by his neck, Johnson said. Brown tried to pull away, but the officer kept pulling Brown toward him, he said.

    The officer drew his weapon, and "he said, 'I'll shoot you' or 'I'm going to shoot' " and almost instantaneously fired his weapon, hitting Brown, Johnson said.

    Johnson and a bloodied Brown took off running, and Johnson hid behind the first car he saw, he said. The officer got out of his car.

    "I saw the officer proceeding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn, and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike," Johnson told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer firing several more shots into my friend, and he hit the ground and died."

    From the police:

    "That Brown was unarmed is undisputed -- St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said every casing found at the scene was from the officer's weapon -- but he said at a Sunday news conference that Brown was not an innocent victim.

    "The genesis of this was a physical confrontation," Belmar said, adding that Ferguson police asked his office to investigate the case.

    Without revealing what led to the dispute, Belmar said the preliminary investigation showed that the Ferguson officer tried to exit his vehicle, but Brown pushed him back into the car," where he physically assaulted the police officer" and struggled over the officer's weapon, Belmar said.

    A shot was fired inside the police car, and Brown was eventually shot about 35 feet away from the vehicle, Belmar said.

    It's unclear how many times Brown was shot. Johnson said it was more than three, and Brown's mother said she was told he was shot eight times. Some witnesses said they heard as many as 10 shots. Belmar said only that it "was more than just a couple."

    The chief didn't explain how Brown got so far away from the car or whether he was surrendering. He said he was declining to disclose certain details because he didn't want to "prejudice" the case."

    Cite: http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/mis...now/index.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Protest planned after LAPD officer shoots, kills challenged man during struggle

    The shooting occurred about 8:20 p.m. Monday after an officer conducted "an investigative stop" in the 200 block of West 65th Street, according to an LAPD news release. During the stop, a "struggle ensued" and the officer shot the person, whom police did not identify. Family members of Ezell Ford told KTLA that he was the man fatally shot by a police officer Monday night. (KTLA)

    Family members identified the man as 24-year-old Ezell Ford, who they described as "mentally challenged." His mother, Tritobia Ford, told KTLA her son was complying with officers' orders, and that the shooting was unjustified.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...813-story.html

    Summer is heating up, must be that ol debbil Glow-bull Warning!
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-13-2014 at 01:21 PM.
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    The police have investigated themselves and found that there was no wrongdoing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Gun sales spike around Ferguson after 3 days of riots

    Gun sales spike around Ferguson after 3 days of riots

    Sales at two local gun shops have gone up 50% in the wake of the Ferguson protests/riots. Both Black and White customers have been buying firearms for protection according to the story.

    http://rt.com/usa/180084-gun-sales-ferguson-protests/

    " Steve King, owner of the Metro Shooting gun store just 8 miles down Interstate 70 from Ferguson, told St. Louis Business Journal that his shop has been “unbelievably busy” in recent days.

    “We’ve sold a variety of handguns, shotguns and AR-15s (a semi-automatic rifle),” said King. “All of the sales are having to do with home defense.”

    King said both black and white customers have been in the store in recent days, some buying new guns while others have looked to upgrade."

    .
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    They figured out that they need protection from the police?

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    I wonder how many of them were against the 2A or wanting it limited to hunting before this. Just curious.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Another Isolated Incident.

    Seems like the citizens are in an uproar.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    I wonder how many of them were against the 2A or wanting it limited to hunting before this. Just curious.
    Good question. During the LA Riots, it was said that liberals were shocked when they were told that they would have to wait 15 days before they could get a gun for protection!

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...p/t-68257.html

    "As far as I recall, the issue was that liberal types were shocked that in order to purchase a firearm to protect themselves, a wait time of (I thought it was 14 days) would ensue before they could take possesion. Obviously if you lived in the most affected affluent areas say Hancock park and the Beverly wilshire areas that actually saw damage, fires and looting, This would have come as quite a shock to the unknowing types. And that's the way it was(and of course still is) albeit now for 10 silly days."

    And in that case, the Korean shop owners used AR-15's to keep the looters from their stores.

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a.../t-788483.html

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a.../t-103700.html


    Now if people ask why we need "those" rifles (AR-15's) ...the LA Riots and now the Ferguson Riots are two good examples.

    Here is more on the infamous LA Riots
    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...p/t-68257.html
    .
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    There was two stores that did not get looted in Ferguson.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...-from-looters/

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    no more questions about the police state, however some of the loudest about it remain silent, a sad state for sure.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    They figured out that they need protection from the police?
    Or were the police, buying for their family.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Why do u need guns for home protection? Those aren't riots they are troubled youths about to turn their lives around who are expressing their 1a rights by assembling for liberty.

    Right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Why do u need guns for home protection? Those aren't riots they are troubled youths about to turn their lives around who are expressing their 1a rights by assembling for liberty.

    Right?

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    Anyone pointing a rifle at me must assume responsibility for doing so. Went to reddit ... not looking good for the po po ...

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    Never an excuse for rioting. Where are the Koreans?* Where are the armed business owners? How come there are no looters' bodies laying outside of businesses that were looting targets?



    * Think Rodney King riots.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Never an excuse for rioting. Where are the Koreans?* Where are the armed business owners? How come there are no looters' bodies laying outside of businesses that were looting targets? * Think Rodney King riots.
    You have not been paying attention if you have missed the image of a half-dozen armed protectors of a business.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Ferguson is not anywhere near LA nor are the two events comparable.

    What is needed is for the cops to say, "Well, you can block the road all you want. You start damaging private, or public, property we are gunna come down hard on ya."

    Defuse the situation by letting "blocking" the road slide. Calls to disperse or be arrested is nothing but the cops flexing their muscle because they can.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Ferguson is not anywhere near LA nor are the two events comparable.

    What is needed is for the cops to say, "Well, you can block the road all you want. You start damaging private, or public, property we are gunna come down hard on ya."

    Defuse the situation by letting "blocking" the road slide. Calls to disperse or be arrested is nothing but the cops flexing their muscle because they can.
    So what about the other citizens of the city in town? You know the ones who actually have to drive down that road to get to work to feed their kids or buy their clothes? Just tell then take the day off and join the looting like everyone else?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    So what about the other citizens of the city in town? You know the ones who actually have to drive down that road to get to work to feed their kids or buy their clothes? Just tell then take the day off and join the looting like everyone else?

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    Hyperbole and deflection, as usual. The cops are blocking the road too and have closed off even more roadway to "ensure" the safety of they and the public at large. OK, they can do that, though I disagree with their simply creating a constitution free zone.

    Folks in the area continue to go to work and have been, no more a inconvenience as if the road were closed for construction. Businesses in the affected area are open for business. Schools in the area remain closed until Monday next due to violence not blocked roads.

    Let the protesters exercise their constitutionally protected civil disobedience and let the cops do their job and protect surrounding private property. Tossing gas and smoke only exacerbates the situation, what some outsiders want the cops to do. Outsiders from Chicago it has been reported.

    You will use well worn "cop logic" to support your position regardless of the facts in evidence.

    You consistently call for cops to deescalate a situation to avoid the use of force if possible, good and proper mindset. How about the Ferguson cops do this too. What harm is there in being noisy without breaking things?

    Oh, being noisy is a violation of the law and cops won't let this stand.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    You have not been paying attention if you have missed the image of a half-dozen armed protectors of a business.
    I was out of town all last week and frankly, pretty much ignored the news. So yes, I have not been paying attention... as you suggested. As for a half-dozen armed business people? Somehow that number seems a bit small in light of what has been happening in all of this.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    So what about the other citizens of the city in town? You know the ones who actually have to drive down that road to get to work to feed their kids or buy their clothes? Just tell then take the day off and join the looting like everyone else?

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    Yeah, those reporters sitting in McDonalds were sure creating traffic problems, so were the TV cameras that were seized that were on tripods on the sidewalk. I guess firing tear gas at folks standing in their own yards helped with the traffic flow as well eh?

    Perhaps one of those business owners will have the courage to file a federal lawsuit against the police for intentional and forcefully and illegally forcing the citizens out of the area eliminating their customer base.

    Protesting = right guaranteed
    Rioting - bad
    Police response to protest because of previous looting = PATHETIC

    WTF it makes me want to PUKE to hear citizens of this country defend the actions of these pathetic thugs called cops for aiming tripod mounted high powered rifles at people protesting by sitting on the curb with their hands in the air.

    Every level of management within the police ortgs involved needs to be terminated immediately.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Ferguson is not anywhere near LA nor are the two events comparable.

    .
    I tend to disagree. Both cases involve an unarmed man being killed. Ferguson involves a suspect with his hands up, the LA case involves a suspect on his stomach on the ground, neither of which appear to be on the offensive. Totally submissive state, IMO.

    Plenty of unrelated facts, sure, but the cases do share commonalities...
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Id like to hear the autopsy results of where Brown was struck at. If he was shot in the back, there might be more to the story then.


    It's interesting that witnesses are now saying that the LEO was trying to pull Brown into driver's side of the police car. That just doesnt seem to hold water to me but im not an LEO. Another witness said Brown's hands and feet were on the ground with his arms raised........huh?


    At any rate, the police AKA ferguson military unit is looking ridiculous wearing full body armor including deltoids while pointing SBRs at some metrosexual black dude with a man purse...... i cant find the picture though.....

    has all this paramilitary gear just been sitting up in closets? where has it been stored and how often have they been training with it?

    here's a high end AR! JP enterprises handguard ($175 i think), two bipods, SS bead blasted barrel, nice comp on the end, high end scope with sunshade. Im thinking he's holding $2000-3000 worth of AR there depending on the scope.
    http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/60f7...-gallery-1.jpg


    Here we have all Eotech's and oakley gloves...... those are cheap
    http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/26ea...-gallery-4.jpg



    here we have a white dude getting arrested for protesting....
    Click image for larger version. 

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    more misunderstood youth removing items from stores so they dont spoil. (while packing a pistol which im sure he has a permit for)
    http://www.pressherald.com/wp-conten...Misso_Acco.jpg
    Last edited by Kopis; 08-14-2014 at 05:05 PM.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Anonymous is claiming to know the cop's identity. They have apparently released a couple of cops' personal info despite the fact they they were mistaken for the cop that shot Brown. This doesn't look good for Anonymous, or the Constitution, or civil rights or due process for that matter.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/14/tech...son-anonymous/

    Also there are reports that the Feds have opened an investigation and that MO State Police have taken over security, with the FBI acting as command.

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/fed...ions-ferguson/

    The letters SHTF come to mind...
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Family members identified the man as 24-year-old Ezell Ford, who they described as "mentally challenged."
    If this is true, it sheds light in a whole different direction. If he indeed was as HIS family members say. But I haven't heard of this on ANY news broadcast.....probably wont hear this in the news, as maybe he was shot as a result of HIS own actions.....IF that is true, it takes all the wind out of the sails of those angered enough to rob, loot, destroy, riot.....uhhh.... because they were angry.. Im waiting for politicians to cry ALL those arrested for rioting should be set free, it wasn't THEIR fault they acted like they did, they were upset and just couldn't help themselves..... what better way to draw attention to the problems between police and citizens, than rioting and causing mayhem, and forcing the police to come down on them to protect the innocent and THEIR businesses.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Ezell Ford was shot in LA, and he was lying on the ground and shot in the back supposedly. Totally different shooting, and possibly better reason to riot than the Brown shooting.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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