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Thread: New Jersey vet says military T-shirt led to denied entry at Six Flags amusement park

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    New Jersey vet says military T-shirt led to denied entry at Six Flags amusement park

    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    The sad part of all this is the fact that if it weren't for guys and gals like him (the veteran, not the statists involved), the control freaks wouldn't be able to bully people around for having a different opinion.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    1 - that is not a "military" shirt

    2 - that is not a "t-shirt"

    3 - even I see the message printed on that shirt as espousing violence, and can understand why a family-oriented place might take exception to it. Or a geriatric center. Or the local landfill. That does not mean I agree with their position, just that I can understand the why and how of their having that position.

    .... you have to take it off … or you need to buy another shirt to put over it.”

    Alejandro, who could not be reached for comment Friday, refused to remove the T-shirt from The Reconnaissance Foundation, a nonprofit group supporting Marines and their relatives, or to buy another garment, leading the security guard to call a supervisor.
    He was offered the opportunity to comply with their policy and viewpoint. I'm impressed that they even considered letting him in sans any shirt.

    [quote[“I fought for this country,” he said. “I laid in a hole for 36 hours with no sleep, and had friends die for this country and so the people here could have the freedom to [do] things like visit amusement parks. So when they told me that I couldn’t come in there with my family because of my shirt — a patriotic shirt — it hurt a lot.[/quote]

    Pulling the "I fought for my country so that ..." card is just BS if you do not understand that you fought so that Six Flags could do precisely what they did.

    I am tired of <people who do/did certain things> using that as an excuse to be allowed to do whatever they want to instead of complying with the rules/policies of private property owners. I may not always agree with the rules/policies but I am not going to use my status as a current/former whatever to buck them. I'll find and use other means to try and get them changed or to encourage others to not support them until the rules/policies are changed.

    stay safe.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The statement on the shirt does not bother me, but the tattoos is what bothers me. The different colors of the tattoos conveys gang membership. I'm sure he has a concealed weapon. Just look at the guy.

    And if true -
    “I saw him talk to two women in white shirts, who looked at me and then shook their heads,” he told NJ.com. “And then the man grabbed my arm and asked me to leave. I told them that it’s not offensive, that it’s a military shirt and that it means nothing. But they said: ‘I don’t care, get out of the park.’”
    - did assault and battery occur?

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    Regular Member Custodian's Avatar
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    It's Jersey, what did you expect?

    Sorry Charlie, but this is the price to be paid for visiting/living in/ or being in close proximity to the People's Republik of New Jerusalem.

    In fact, if you live in the northeast, anywhere above the Virginias? I have little to no pity for you.

    Even if the courts, one day, a long, long time time from now, ever deal with the unconstitutional stance up north, with those Yanks, still, it will take forever to deal with their statist, anti-freedom, anti-gun CULTURE.

    Til then, suck it up. Its all you can do. Or move away and come back to the actual United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Custodian View Post
    [ ... ] New Jerusalem. [ ... ]Til then, suck it up. Its all you can do. Or move away and come back to the actual United States.
    I don't know how you spun from the state name New Jersey to New Jerusalem. Jersey was founded/gained independence in the Thirteenth Century and long before the concept of Jerusalem became politicized. Shalom aleikhem.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    [quote[“I fought for this country,” he said. “I laid in a hole for 36 hours with no sleep, and had friends die for this country and so the people here could have the freedom to [do] things like visit amusement parks.

    stay safe.
    This guy did not fight for our freedom, at least not for our freedoms. Our freedoms, at least from outsiders, are safe dude. What, you think the Canadians are and issue...and we are welcoming in the infiltrators from Mexico with open arms ..... why isn't he there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    3 - even I see the message printed on that shirt as espousing violence
    How is 'returning fire' "espousing violence"? If you are returning fire, doesn't that mean you have have already been shot at? Wouldn't 'return fire' be defending ones self?

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    The statement on the shirt does not bother me, but the tattoos is what bothers me. The different colors of the tattoos conveys gang membership. I'm sure he has a concealed weapon. Just look at the guy.

    And if true -
    - did assault and battery occur?
    This was in NJ, which is a may issue state, so I highly doubt he had any physical tools of protection.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    This was in NJ, which is a may issue state, so I highly doubt he had any physical tools of protection.
    Well, at least LAWFULLY!

    Not that I agree with that law!
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    Regular Member RU serious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    What a bunch of commies!
    Huh? Or are you one of those guys that believes OC trumps all else, including private property rights?


    I thought this was a funny reply on another forum:


    I can just hear the gate attendant now.

    "I'm sorry sir, it's our policy, your shirt might offend or alarm someone."


    well, that 300 lb whale over there in the 2 piece alarms and offends me, make her put a harbor freight tarp over that mess.
    I've got a 12X8 in my truck tool box, that should do it

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU serious View Post
    Huh? Or are you one of those guys that believes OC trumps all else, including private property rights?


    I thought this was a funny reply on another forum:


    I can just hear the gate attendant now.

    "I'm sorry sir, it's our policy, your shirt might offend or alarm someone."


    well, that 300 lb whale over there in the 2 piece alarms and offends me, make her put a harbor freight tarp over that mess.
    I've got a 12X8 in my truck tool box, that should do it
    If you are open to the public, you are no longer able to forbid anyone. Can you imagine what kind of shitstorm they'd receive if they said, "No black people?"
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member RU serious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    OCDO is analogous to Fat Acceptance Training
    So, it's indoctrination ... got it!


    Last edited by RU serious; 08-16-2014 at 08:08 PM.

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    Regular Member RU serious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    If you are open to the public, you are no longer able to forbid anyone.
    No shirt, no shoes, no service.
    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.
    Proper attire required.

    I don't know what it's like in WI but in Texas, private property rights are not lost where public access is afforded.

    Can you imagine what kind of shitstorm they'd receive if they said, "No black people?"
    Not OT, not going there.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU serious View Post
    No shirt, no shoes, no service.
    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.
    Proper attire required.

    I don't know what it's like in WI but in Texas, private property rights are not lost where public access is afforded.


    Not OT, not going there.
    Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member RU serious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right.
    Are you seriously suggesting property rights are fer ****?!? LMAO

    Does that include YOUR rights?
    Last edited by RU serious; 08-16-2014 at 08:23 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    This was in NJ, which is a may issue state, so I highly doubt he had any physical tools of protection.
    Was I suppose to use one of those face thingies to convey sarcasm?

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU serious View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting property rights are fer ****?!? LMAO

    Does that include YOUR rights?




    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Was I suppose to use one of those face thingies to convey sarcasm?
    That would help some.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member RU serious's Avatar
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    I see protias has withdrawn from the discussion.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU serious View Post
    I see protias has withdrawn from the discussion.
    Sorry, but your argument is weak. How can you possibly say that something open to the public, can prohibit people from going in. Do you also say public property is a prohibited place? You have failed to answer my question of how something being legal (refusal of allowing some entering in) is morally right.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Sorry, but your argument is weak. How can you possibly say that something open to the public, can prohibit people from going in. Do you also say public property is a prohibited place? You have failed to answer my question of how something being legal (refusal of allowing some entering in) is morally right.
    Is there a difference in barring someone from your business for a civil right (being black) versus barring them for a dress code (offensive or lack of shirt)?

    In common sense and every state I know of, it is a clear difference, but I do not know NJ or WI.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-16-2014 at 09:02 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Is there a difference in barring someone from your business for a civil right (being black) versus barring them for a dress code (offensive or lack of shirt)?

    In common sense and every state I know of, it is a clear difference, but I do not know NJ or WI.
    Again, there is a difference between what is legal and what is right.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    NYT: White flight suburbs retain white power structure...

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    If you are open to the public, you are no longer able to forbid anyone. Can you imagine what kind of shitstorm they'd receive if they said, "No black people?"
    Around St. Louis, a Circle of Rage

    As African-Americans moved into the city and whites moved out, real estate agents and city leaders, in a pattern familiar elsewhere in the country, conspired to keep blacks out of the suburbs through the use of zoning ordinances and restrictive covenants. But by the 1970s, some of those barriers had started to fall, and whites moved even farther away from the city. These days, Ferguson is like many of the suburbs around St. Louis, inner-ring towns that accommodated white flight decades ago but that are now largely black. And yet they retain a white power structure.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/us...ice-force.html

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    Regular Member RU serious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Sorry, but your argument is weak. How can you possibly say that something open to the public, can prohibit people from going in. Do you also say public property is a prohibited place? You have failed to answer my question of how something being legal (refusal of allowing some entering in) is morally right.
    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Again, there is a difference between what is legal and what is right.
    Computer locked and I couldn't reply to the 1st before the 2nd was posted which is actually convenient.

    Weak, how do you figure? It is private property. If I don't allow certain clothes in my amusement park or the carry of guns in my restaurant, it is my choice. Ticket or burrito sales may suffer (OR flourish) but it is still my choice. You get to choose whether or not to cross the threshold.

    You didn't ask me a "morality" question but rather one of Civil Rights. Of course that can be considered a morality issue which was a group decision by The People.

    That said, as pro-gunners, we can't even be civil to one another when someone (me) says they'd rarely OC if the option were available, so there's NO WAY we could agree on what is moral on other issues.
    Last edited by RU serious; 08-16-2014 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Sp

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