Cincinnati WEBN fireworks, No Weapons

BB62 said:

.....One of the conditions in the of agreement (section 1A) between WEBN and the city is that "The event shall be gated but must be **free and open to the general public**" (my asterisks) - so it's a PUBLIC event, not a private event.

At a private event, WEBN could impose various restrictions upon quantity, identity and behavior of the people attending - but this is a PUBLIC event.

Another condition of the agreement is in section 8 of the agreement, entitled "Compliance with laws and policies". That part says "...Contractor shall comply with all statutes, ordinances, regulations and rules of the Federal Government, the State of Ohio, the County of Hamilton, the City of Cincinnati and the Cincinnati Park Board, the terms and conditions of the Central Riverfront Permit Application and the City of Cincinnati Special Permit Application".

So WEBN has to comply with various laws, including ORC 9.68, and 9.68 as well as at least two Ohio Supreme Court cases make it clear that public parks, when open to the PUBLIC, are places where one who can legally possess a firearm can carry.

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So in fact to trespass a person for excising a right would be totally illegal and of course the firearms restriction they think they can impose is nullified. Carry at will and be prepared to cite state law if confronted and harassed.

rightwinglibertarian said:

So in fact to trespass a person for excising a right would be totally illegal and of course the firearms restriction they think they can impose is nullified. Carry at will and be prepared to cite state law if confronted and harassed.

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The dirty part is the cops arrest you. You sit in jail till Tuesday. In court the charges are dismissed. So, are you going to sue?????

These are the "Park Board Rules."
View attachment park_board_rules.pdf
Rule 10 complies with state law. The carrying of guns is permitted.

Rule 29 is titled "Special Use Permits for Events and Structures." Part 6 says:

The applicant agrees to comply with all park board rules and regulations and the terms of the permit.

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The rules makes it clear that WEBN or the City cannot prohibit the carrying of firearms.

color of law said:

The dirty part is the cops arrest you. You sit in jail till Tuesday. In court the charges are dismissed. So, are you going to sue?????

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part and parcel of being an activist. I've not been back in the US long enough yet but once i'm sorted properly you can bet I will connect with as many as possible in my state as well as membership of a major gun organisation. I would say NRA but they arent quite as dogmatic about rights as they should be apart from people such as Jan Morgan and a few others likely.

Also if they unlawfully arrest you of course that crime will be caught on the camera I use to record the incident and I proceed to nail him to the wall for assault and kidnap. Cities start having to shell out big bucks every time they violate a right they'll soon learn. Question is who has the guts and who cares enough to do it?

Here are some Riverfest related documents if anyone is interested:

Riverfest-Contract-2012.pdf
http://www.ohionets.com/stuff/city-cincinnati/Riverfest-Contract-2012.pdf

Riverfest-special-event-permit-2013.pdf
http://www.ohionets.com/stuff/city-cincinnati/Riverfest-special-event-permit-2013.pdf

Riverfest-Reservation-Form-2014.pdf
http://www.ohionets.com/stuff/city-cincinnati/Riverfest-Reservation-Form-2014.pdf

rightwinglibertarian said:

... Question is who has the guts and who cares enough to do it?

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<raises hand>

BB62 said:

I imagine some old geezer will be along to put a finer point on it, but here is a question that was posted on the Facebook event page, and my answer to it:

Question: Help me out here. I thought WEBN rented/leased the space which would make their prohibition legal. Am I wrong on this count?

Answer: Glad to help you Mike. WEBN has neither rented nor leased the space. They have use of it under multiple conditions and because they have an approved "Special Use Permit".

One of the conditions in the of agreement (section 1A) between WEBN and the city is that "The event shall be gated but must be **free and open to the general public**" (my asterisks) - so it's a PUBLIC event, not a private event.

At a private event, WEBN could impose various restrictions upon quantity, identity and behavior of the people attending - but this is a PUBLIC event.

Another condition of the agreement is in section 8 of the agreement, entitled "Compliance with laws and policies". That part says "...Contractor shall comply with all statutes, ordinances, regulations and rules of the Federal Government, the State of Ohio, the County of Hamilton, the City of Cincinnati and the Cincinnati Park Board, the terms and conditions of the Central Riverfront Permit Application and the City of Cincinnati Special Permit Application".

So WEBN has to comply with various laws, including ORC 9.68, and 9.68 as well as at least two Ohio Supreme Court cases make it clear that public parks, when open to the PUBLIC, are places where one who can legally possess a firearm can carry.

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I think I know who asked that question

How have I not come across this site? What do you think the odds are of getting temporarily locked up over this?

fyrfytr310 said:

I think I know who asked that question ...

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Probably some lunatic!

fyrfytr310 said:

...How have I not come across this site?...

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Do you open carry? Are you a red-blooded American? I simply have no answer. :question: :banghead:

fyrfytr310 said:

...What do you think the odds are of getting temporarily locked up over this?

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We have a week to assess that - and I have a few things left in my quiver. Just watch and wait. If you like, PM me with your contact info and we'll chat.

BB62 said:

<raises hand>

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I would certainly like to shake that hand. You are one of a very very few people left. I hope you've joined your local militia and are causing as many problems as you can for those who would threaten your Constitutional rights.

The government gets upset when citizens conspire to find the law, read the law and comply with the law.

I once heard a Clerk of Court say the most dangerous persons are the citizens with the law in their hand.

This whole matter is that there are citizens who have read the contract, agreement, rules and the law, and concluded that WEBN's attempt at prohibiting Weapons is in violation of the contract, agreement, rules and the law that WEBN agreed to comply with.

After extensive verbal and written communications with various parties, the prohibition on "weapons" remains on WEBN's website.

I don't have time to go into detail right now, but Cincinnati's Solicitor (head of the Law Department) has made it clear to me and others that they have no intention of enforcing the portion of their agreement with Clear Channel which requires FOLLOWING THE LAW.

Together with elements of Cincinnati's law enforcement and/or political office holders, Clear Channel has decided to continue their deceptive advertising - making it appear that they have the authority to limit that which they do not.

*** What you can do is encourage all your like minded friends to sign up for this event and then SHOW UP. *** Event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/605792739533573

Be prepared to talk with inquisitive members of the public. The city is not foolish enough to attempt to enforce what will get them in hot water in Federal court, but you may find yourself being talked to by an officer (or two or three). This is just part of activism. We will talk about such things in-person when we get together. I will also share my cell phone number with attendees.

Please see the Facebook event page for a more up-to-date discussion about the meeting time and place. Right now I am leaning towards meeting at Bicentennial Commons, which has paid parking and a walk way to Yeatman's Cove, at which this is an "entrance" and where lots of people gather. I'm strongly leaning towards it because it's a bit away from the action.

Depending on people's arrival times, I may just get there early (1 PM) and give people a cell number to call so they can be met if they don't want to attempt to enter by themselves. I think that may be how it goes because not everyone wants to be there all day.

*** VERY IMPORTANT *** - road closing/parking info, event rules, meeting places/times.

Understand that this event is attended by hundreds of thousands of people, on both sides of the river. The people down at the riverfront today told me that some people actually set up blankets *the day before*. Don't freak out, but also don't plan to get there at 8 PM for the 9 PM fireworks.

*I will message everyone who asks, except certain undesirables , my cell # before Sunday.* I do NOT have a smart phone, but I can get texts.

1) Study the road closing and parking information: http://tinyurl.com/ncjogln There is parking close to the riverfront, but you'd better get there early.

2) Study the event rules including, "no containers, bottles, etc", but of course ignore the "no weapons" part: http://tinyurl.com/kfzrmzz

3) Meeting places/times: if requested, and/or if you have trouble getting in, or just want someone to meet you, I'll be glad to meet people at one of two main entrances (below) that I know will be open. I favor the east entrance, but go with what works for you. Feel free to post messages publicly or send them privately in order to arrange to meet people.

There may be others open, but the main entrance to the west is just *east* of Broadway and US 52. It's known as the "Public Landing". The main entrance to the west is at Eggleston and E. Pete Rose Way. The entrance to the riverfront there is labelled "Bicentennial Commons". Between the two entrances is where there will be LOTS of people. If you see you are at Yeatman's Cove Park, you've found the center of the action, including food and refreshments. Just follow the closest 10,000 people and you'll get there.

Most people on the riverfront are between the Taylor Southgate bridge to the west and the Dan Beard Bridge ("Big Mac Bridge") to the east.

I'll be arriving at either 10 or 11 AM Sunday morning, and staying for as long as my legs hold out. Come when you like, understanding that more and more people will arrive as the day goes on. I would think that 1 PM would be a good target time to arrive. The fireworks are fantastic, though, so if you can stay, do so!

Finally, SIDEARMS ONLY, and please, for the love of God, don't wear a black shirt with a black gun! ** Make it evident that you're wearing a firearm (or two)! ** We want to be noticed, and we want to interact with people.

That's it. Be there or be square!! Aloha!

Check out Channel 12 at 11 PM tonight - they tell me I will be on. If you watch it, please share your impressions.

The report and photojournalist asked great questions AND confirmed that the City Solicitor acknowledged that the "prohibition" as applied to firearms (and I would tell you a number of other things) was not legally enforceable. How interesting that in 4 (yes, FOUR contacts) with me he wouldn't do the same. But then, you and I know the law and aren't swayed by the city and Clear Channel's deceptions.

BB62 said:

Check out Channel 12 at 11 PM tonight - they tell me I will be on. If you watch it, please share your impressions.

The report and photojournalist asked great questions AND confirmed that the City Solicitor acknowledged that the "prohibition" as applied to firearms (and I would tell you a number of other things) was not legally enforceable. How interesting that in 4 (yes, FOUR contacts) with me he wouldn't do the same. But then, you and I know the law and aren't swayed by the city and Clear Channel's deceptions.

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Congrats!!!!! It's amazing what a little tenacity can accomplish.

And it was accomplished without the big gun groups help. But, most of the successes in Southwest Ohio have been at the hands of individual activists working together.

Lets all keep up the good work.

I wish I lived closer cuz you betcha i'd open carry and give whoever needs it a dose of the law.

Well,,,

rightwinglibertarian said:

I wish I lived closer cuz you betcha i'd open carry and give whoever needs it a dose of the law.

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You seem to have a pretty good handle on the law part of the plan quoted here,,, but
I have got to warn you...
Do NOT OC until.... you buy your first hand gun!:lol:

1245A Defender said:

You seem to have a pretty good handle on the law part of the plan quoted here,,, but
I have got to warn you...
Do NOT OC until.... you buy your first hand gun!:lol:

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oh..... I can't stick my hand in a holster and make it look like I have a gun? :banana:

color of law said:

Congrats!!!!! It's amazing what a little tenacity can accomplish.

And it was accomplished without the big gun groups help. But, most of the successes in Southwest Ohio have been at the hands of individual activists working together.

Lets all keep up the good work.

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Lest anyone get the impression that this was a one man show, it was most certainly NOT. Although I was the lead, Color of Law provided crucial legal interpretation and support, and new user fyrfytr310 made essential contacts.

I publicly salute and thank both of them.

Now, I'm off to get the popcorn and watch the news.

edited to add: Thanks to MWSY for hosting relevant documents!

Channel 12 report: http://www.local12.com/news/feature...ry-firearms-at-riverfest-festival-16893.shtml

or for those who prefer shorter links: http://tinyurl.com/n5s3akh

Wowwie!!!

rightwinglibertarian said:

oh..... I can't stick my hand in a holster and make it look like I have a gun? :banana:

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Well ,,, if you dont got a gun.....
What kind of holster do you got?

If you have any holster,,, dont put your hand in it,,, it may be construed as Brandishing!!!:uhoh:
If you have a holster,,, I would suggest filling it with a pleasant yellow banana,,, folks will know what you mean..

I had to go to the fazebook to find this event happens Sunday evening,,, Sooo you still have time.:lol:

Good luck to all and have fun out there on Sunday. I do hope many of you an meet up at the event!

I would come too,,, but it would be too far of a trip.. BTW, I got plenty guns and holsters..