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Thread: Body Armor Ban

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    Body Armor Ban


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    In short, it bans a person from purchasing/owning/possessing level 3 or higher body. Only exceptions are armor owned before enactment and government agencies.

    From the way it reads it appears that it would even prevent privatized security from using the armor since even if the company purchased/owned the armor, the individual would have to be in possession of it while on duty. If that isn't true, and the whole "a trust isn't a person" bit, then one could side-step it via the trust/business route.

    Luckily I doubt this will go very far, but definately something to keep one's eye on.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    By a show of hands - how many here wear body armor regularly?

    Yes, it is another attempt to pull and end-run on the Second Amendment, and for that we need to be watchful and oppose it.

    I don't know about where you live, but it's already illegal here to wear body armor (any level) while committing a felony. How about we get the word out to all the criminals, so they will stop wearing body armor just like they obey the laws against robbing and killing. That's the ticket!

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I'd probably buy body armor just for the 'fun of having it.' You can get level 3 armor super cheap, I was surprised last time I looked up prices. Edit: It's on my wishlist, for sure.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 08-22-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    You're missing the point. They want us to be easy to kill.

    Owning a gun does not make you bulletproof...
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I'd probably buy body armor just for the 'fun of having it.' You can get level 3 armor super cheap, I was surprised last time I looked up prices. Edit: It's on my wishlist, for sure.
    What do u consider "super cheap"? $500+?

    Are you talking about IIIa soft armor with no trauma plates?

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    What do u consider "super cheap"? $500+?

    Are you talking about IIIa soft armor with no trauma plates?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    I'm talking about (2) level 3 plates and a carrier. Such as those found at ar500armor.com. You can get 2 plates and a carrier sub $300. Of course, then you only have plate protection. Not sure if it's more typical to wear plates over Kevlar that covers more than what the plates cover, I don't know much about body armor
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 08-23-2014 at 10:12 AM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I'm talking about (2) level 3 plates and a carrier. Such as those found at ar500armor.com. You can get 2 plates and a carrier sub $300. Of course, then you only have plate protection. Not sure if it's more typical to wear plates over Kevlar that covers more than what the plates cover, I don't know much about body armor
    Ahh ok. Your talking about a plate carrier then and just putting trauma plates in. No kevlar.

    I was hoping you had a connection for kevlar body armor since im sick of dropping like $800 every few years.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I have several sets of armor that I use for a variety of legal purposes. I have a range set that I use for teaching (ebay-US$75). I also have several others in soft and a few plate carriers to go over them. I guess I will be legally "grandfathered" in? I doubt that.
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    Have you ever been to the "Pit"? When I go to shooting areas like that I always wear armor. It only takes one idiot.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    You do realize that advertisement is for used body armor of unknown age and condition, right?

    Most soft body armor sold in the United States is rated for five years of service. That's the standard of the National Institute of Justice (NIJ).
    http://www.policemag.com/channel/pat...ody-armor.aspx
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    Wouldn't any body armor be better than no body armor? Like the caliber discussion, I'd rather have a 22 cal then no gun at all.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabledawg View Post
    Wouldn't any body armor be better than no body armor? Like the caliber discussion, I'd rather have a 22 cal then no gun at all.........
    It's the cost/benefit ratio in a low threat environment. See decision under uncertainty theory.

    In the logical extreme, Gekko 45 with his fully loaded duty belt is prepared.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-25-2014 at 01:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You do realize that advertisement is for used body armor of unknown age and condition, right?

    Most soft body armor sold in the United States is rated for five years of service. That's the standard of the National Institute of Justice (NIJ).
    http://www.policemag.com/channel/pat...ody-armor.aspx
    I would guess that various additives and plasticizers eventually leave the fibers...making the fibers more brittle over time.

    I have not seen any studies regarding this but its a good guess IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would guess that various additives and plasticizers eventually leave the fibers...making the fibers more brittle over time.

    I have not seen any studies regarding this but its a good guess IMO.
    It would seem that separation of fibers is a major point.

    Any body armor system that has been heavily worn (for example, moderate-to-heavy set wrinkles throughout the ballistic panels, open breaks in the outer shell carrier, the outer shell carrier is heavily stained and worn), regardless of its age, SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE ABUSED AND AUTOMATICALLY VOIDS THIS WARRANTY IN ALL RESPECTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO VOIDING ANY BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE WARRANTY.
    http://www.safariland.com/bodyarmor/...04-NIJ-05.aspx

    Testing & studies of body armor:
    http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology...s/welcome.aspx

    http://nij.gov/topics/technology/bod.../research.aspx
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It would seem that separation of fibers is a major point.

    Any body armor system that has been heavily worn (for example, moderate-to-heavy set wrinkles throughout the ballistic panels, open breaks in the outer shell carrier, the outer shell carrier is heavily stained and worn), regardless of its age, SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE ABUSED AND AUTOMATICALLY VOIDS THIS WARRANTY IN ALL RESPECTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO VOIDING ANY BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE WARRANTY.
    http://www.safariland.com/bodyarmor/...04-NIJ-05.aspx

    Testing & studies of body armor:
    http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology...s/welcome.aspx

    http://nij.gov/topics/technology/bod.../research.aspx
    I did not see an accelerated aging methods or light exposure methods ... so I guess that they tested actual 5 yr old vests or similar .. or they just guessed (which happens more often than you think).

    I recall the dragon skin body armor case where they actually failed with different degree angle of shots ... whoops ... the company lost their case.. cop got killed, family sued vest manufacturer..

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I did not see an accelerated aging methods or light exposure methods ... so I guess that they tested actual 5 yr old vests or similar .. or they just guessed (which happens more often than you think).

    ..
    The actual test by NIJ was done by handing out some thing like 100 vest then after 5 years they went back and recovered something like 5 of them.

    Then they shot those 5 a couple of those vest failed the NIJ tests It was my under standing that the vests that failed were in bad shape oiled stained ect.

    Because of those vests that failed they adopted the 5 year standard.

    The vest manufactures are very happy to say their vest are only good for 5 years they sell a lot more then saying 10 or even 15 years.

    Many vests kept in good shape retained ballistic protection for decades.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 08-25-2014 at 09:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I'd probably buy body armor just for the 'fun of having it.' You can get level 3 armor super cheap, I was surprised last time I looked up prices. Edit: It's on my wishlist, for sure.
    Having wore armor every day of my 33 year career I can tell you its not fun.

    But a very good idea to have if you are going into harms way.

    I would recommend buying armor over a BUG if your serious about survival.

    Not as nice as a BUG but a lot more practical.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    When a BUG is a primary

    Alternate definition of BUG = big ugly gun.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Alternate definition of BUG = big ugly gun.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    = Hi Point
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Alternate definition of BUG = big ugly gun.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    Ruger P85, very big, very ugly, always works. Good enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Ruger P85, very big, very ugly, always works. Good enough for me.
    I carried a P89 on the job for about 15 years very reliable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    = Hi Point
    Yeah, as far as big ugly guns go, that would qualify. Around 1992, answered an add in the paper and went to look at a Hi Point. I don't have the largest hands, but they're certainly not the smallest, either. The pistol was clearly made for Andre the Giant. Weighed about as much as he did, too.

    I'm just fine with the medium frames and grips.

    Back on topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Having wore armor every day of my 33 year career I can tell you its not fun.

    But a very good idea to have if you are going into harms way.

    I would recommend buying armor over a BUG if your serious about survival.

    Not as nice as a BUG but a lot more practical.
    As a military aviator, I only wore body armor while flying in and out of hostile territory. Our armor was not designed to stop bullets, but rather, shrapnel, such as that created by flying debris when a surface to air missile explodes next to the cockpit. As such, it weighed less than ballistic armor and only qualified as Type I. Even so, it would absorb a lot of energy before a bullet punched through. Better than nothing. From what I understand, that's been upgraded to ballistic armor.

    Click here for the full list of standards.

    I'm intrigued by liquid armor. It's kevlar that's soaked in non-Newtonian fluids, also known as shear thickening fluids (or STF), where viscosity increases with the rate of shear strain. They're quite pliable at low shear, such as while being worn and moving around. When struck by a bullet or knife, however, Van der Waals forces skyrocket, instantly turning the fluid into a solid. STFs can be stabilized either electrostatically or sterically (under pressure).

    With the right engineering geometries, it's conceivable a full body suit of liquid armor would weight the same as today's Type IV vests while providing greatly enhanced ventilation.
    Last edited by since9; 09-04-2014 at 01:03 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Yeah, as far as big ugly guns go, that would qualify. Around 1992, answered an add in the paper and went to look at a Hi Point. I don't have the largest hands, but they're certainly not the smallest, either. The pistol was clearly made for Andre the Giant. Weighed about as much as he did, too.

    I'm just fine with the medium frames and grips.
    That's because when they break you need to use it as an impact weapon.

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