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Thread: Health department gun buster sign.

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Health department gun buster sign.

    Today, while out and about with our 7 day old daughter, I noticed a sign on the local health department doors that read "no concealed weapons" with the red line through the picture.

    While people where speaking with my wife and looking at our new blessing, I decided to walk over to the health dept. I walked in OC'ing and took a seat while waiting to speak with someone. Not a word was said to me.

    After about 10 minutes I was called to the window with my gun in plain sight. I asked the lady if the building/agency was a county building/agency. She said "sort of, most of our raises come from county but some come from the state."

    I asked to speak with a supervisor and was told he was busy but that they would have him call me. I thanked them and left. 15 minutes later he called and I asked if he was aware of 65.870. Not to my surprise he had never heard of it.

    Generally, when I do this type of work I like to do so in person with paperwork in hand, but I had to do this one on the fly. I recommended that he inquire with the county attorney for further advice just like a couple of other county agencies have done. (They all were advised to remove the signage and so far they all have complied)

    All of this was around 9 this morning. I went back by the building around 6 this afternoon and the signs remained. I'm not to concerned just yet because in my experience it usually takes 3 or 4 days before they see the light and comply with the law.


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    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  2. #2
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Today, while out and about with our 7 day old daughter, I noticed a sign on the local health department doors that read "no concealed weapons" with the red line through the picture.

    While people where speaking with my wife and looking at our new blessing, I decided to walk over to the health dept. I walked in OC'ing and took a seat while waiting to speak with someone. Not a word was said to me.

    After about 10 minutes I was called to the window with my gun in plain sight. I asked the lady if the building/agency was a county building/agency. She said "sort of, most of our raises come from county but some come from the state."

    I asked to speak with a supervisor and was told he was busy but that they would have him call me. I thanked them and left. 15 minutes later he called and I asked if he was aware of 65.870. Not to my surprise he had never heard of it.

    Generally, when I do this type of work I like to do so in person with paperwork in hand, but I had to do this one on the fly. I recommended that he inquire with the county attorney for further advice just like a couple of other county agencies have done. (They all were advised to remove the signage and so far they all have complied)

    All of this was around 9 this morning. I went back by the building around 6 this afternoon and the signs remained. I'm not to concerned just yet because in my experience it usually takes 3 or 4 days before they see the light and comply with the law.


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    Good job. If it doesn't come down in a few days make sure to let KC3 know. It will be added to the list

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  3. #3
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    So far I've had good luck getting these signs removed, but I'm bound to meet my match one day. If so, I'm sure kc3 will take over.

    I have another agency that I believe is in violation that I plan to address. I was going to go see them on the 18th when my son was going to be in school, my wife would have been at work and I would have had the day off, but our daughter came a month early so I'm a bit preoccupied.

    I'll still get around to it, maybe just not as fast as I originally intended.


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    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  5. #5
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    No concealed weapons. OK does the county have an ordinance in place? Carry openly and there should be no concern. I'm sure you can handle it. You've been there done that!!
    Last edited by hotrod; 08-24-2014 at 04:52 PM.
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  6. #6
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Deep down I was wishing that they would have said something about my gun so I could say "the sign says concealed and mine is open", but you do bring up a good point about an ordinance.

    To my knowledge no ordinance exist. I'll be checking back tomorrow and should know more by then.


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    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  7. #7
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    As of today the signs remain. I thought about doing what I normally do which is a follow up. Then I asked myself a question that I remember asking myself a while back......why in the hell am I wasting my gas, time, energy and effort to save these people from themselves???

    This tactic was all fine and dandy prior to HB500 revamping 65.870, a pleasant courtesy if you will, but more than enough time has passed for these people to know what they can and can not do.

    For me, the time of courtesy has passed. Does this need to be passed on to KC3?


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    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  8. #8
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    I must be doing something wrong. I've never seen a potential 65.870 violation get so little attention.


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    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  9. #9
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean nothing is happening. May mean there is nothing to hear yet
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  10. #10
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I am an ignorant Virginian, could you enlighten me as to why this is not legitimate? Not arguing, just truly curious. Seems to me OC is OK there.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  11. #11
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    Why not remove the sign yourself and hand to the bldg supv. telling him that someone must have put this sign up as a joke..and then edumacate them.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Why not remove the sign yourself and hand to the bldg supv. telling him that someone must have put this sign up as a joke..and then edumacate them.
    tempting but someone is bound to try to do you for vandalism.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Well, you live there and are unwilling to do the work necessary to fix it. Do you really expect someone else to make several trips across the state and waste his "gas, time, energy and effort" to fix it for you? Have you contacted anybody to help fix it? Who? How do you expect anybody to help without talking to them first? Do you expect someone to file a lawsuit without knowing the answer to all the necessary questions? Is this the district office on Gudgell St. or is it the local Bath Co. Health Dept. on Oberlin St., which ever it is, does the other one have similar signs, does Bath Co. have an ordinance prohibiting concealed weapons, do any of the other counties in the district have one, is that ordinance properly written, is this a county office or a state office, who placed those signs, who ordered them placed, who is the district director, who is in charge of the local office? What are their email addresses? What are the written policies of both offices? Have you asked for their policy manual? Most of these questions and possibly more will have to be answered. Neither Bath Co. nor the Health Dept offer much info an the internet.

    Filing lawsuits is expensive and filing lawsuits without doing the necessary legwork first is extremely expensive.
    Well, you live there and are unwilling to do the work necessary to fix it.
    Not at all. I'm just unwilling to save these people from themselves. That time for me has passed.

    Do you really expect someone else to make several trips across the state and waste his gas, time, energy and effort" to fix it for you?
    Nope. I'll be more than glad to do the leg work and pass the information on via phone, email, letter, etc.

    Have you contacted anybody to help fix it? Who? How do you expect anybody to help without talking to them first?
    Guilty. In issues past it seemed that help came my way even when I didn't necessarily solicit for it. I guess I need to keep in mind that sometimes you have to reach out to others for assistance.

    Do you expect someone to file a lawsuit without knowing the answer to all the necessary questions?
    Of course not. But I've never been part of an actual suit. I guess I need guidance so that I may learn all necessary information that will be needed.

    Is this the district office on Gudgell St. or is it the local Bath Co. Health Dept. on Oberlin St., which ever it is, does the other one have similar signs,
    Oberlin St. The Gudgell site is now abandoned.

    does Bath Co. have an ordinance prohibiting concealed weapons, do any of the other counties in the district have one, is that ordinance properly written,
    I ran into an elected county official not long ago and asked this question. To no surprise I got an "I don't think so" answer. I have not had time to read through county ordinances in an attempt to find such an ordinance.

    is this a county office or a state office, who placed those signs, who ordered them placed, who is the district director, who is in charge of the local office? What are their email addresses? What are the written policies of both offices?
    When I asked this question I was told that the "regular paycheck" comes from the county, but some raises come from the state. The plaque on the front of the building names all county officials when the building was built such as who the judge executive was at the time, etc, not that a plaque means squat. I do not know the answers to the rest of your question.

    Most of these questions and possibly more will have to be answered. Neither Bath Co. nor the Health Dept offer much info an the internet.
    I'm sure. I feel that I've gotten pretty good at explaining 65.870 violations and having them corrected, but when they are not corrected I feel like the barking dog that finally caught the car....no idea what to do from there.

    Filing lawsuits is expensive and filing lawsuits without doing the necessary legwork first is extremely expensive
    No doubt. Hypothetically, if you had an interest in making sure that this isn't a violation, what advice would you offer to a person that is trying to correct it?
    Last edited by self preservation; 09-13-2014 at 07:36 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    don't mean to hijack this thread but i have a question. on the monroe county courthouse doors is a sign that reads: (carrying concealed weapons on courthouse property is prohibited). is this sign legal? if not i will go in a few days and ask some questions. now this is the county courthouse not the justice center. thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    It could be legal. Cities and counties can prohibit concealed weapons in their buildings. They must pass an ordinance to do this. Does Monroe Co. have such an ordinance to do this? I doubt that they do, but they could. What do they mean by "property"? They can only prohibit concealed weapons inside buildings. What offices are in the courthouse? Is this the exact and complete wording on the sign? Who put the sign up? Who is going to enforce it? Lots of questions to be answered. To be sure you don't violate any rule, just OC in the courthouse; problem solved.
    i had to take my wife for medical tests today so i couldn't take too much time but i did run in and ask this morning. seems the former judge eddie lovelace signed an order, that was what was shown to me, it was typed on a paper to not allow conceal weapons on courthouse property and signed by him. he passed away about a year or so ago, the sign has been there a while but since i didn't conceal then i paid no attention. the exact wording on the sign is (carrying concealed weapons on courthouse property is prohibited). the courthouse has the p.v.a., county clerk, county judge ex., and the sheriff downstairs. the county courtroom is upstairs. i will be going later in the week and i will take more time to ask more questions, thanks.
    Last edited by boomer92266; 09-15-2014 at 03:30 PM.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    FIXED,....I think! I submitted an Open Records Request for policies of the District Office and each of the county offices. Today I got this reply.


    Gutshot,


    we have no local policies in place


    We are in the process of removing these signs at all locations


    If you need further assistance, please let me know


    Thanks
    Greg Brewer


    Somebody needs an keep an eye on the signs. I will send Mr. Brewer another message to see if I can speed up the process. They are over two years late on this job.
    Sweet. I feel like I dropped the ball on this one due to the extended amount of time that it is taking me to further pursue these issues. I forgot how much time a newborn in the house takes up. Nonetheless, thanks for your successful efforts. I will keep an eye on the place to make sure they follow through with what they said.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  17. #17
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    That is not what they told me. The Gateway District office is still on Gudgell St. The new building (the one with the signs) is only the Bath County office. The Director, who is over Bath Co, Rowan Co., Menifee Co. and Morgan Co. has his office in the Gudgell St. building. All of the four county offices are administered from Gudgell St. The possibility that there are no signs on the District office make me wonder if there is a county ordinance. Why signs on one building and not the other when they are run by the same man? Or maybe there are signs on the Gudgell St. office. Have you checked?
    Really? I would have bet my paycheck that due to this buildings lack of activity, age and lack of upkeep that it was abandoned. I really need to stop this assuming thing. I'm not for sure about signage at this location. If I did notice signage at one point, I probably wrote it off believing that the building was empty. I will double check this location.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  18. #18
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    It could be legal. Cities and counties can prohibit concealed weapons in their buildings. They must pass an ordinance to do this. Does Monroe Co. have such an ordinance to do this? I doubt that they do, but they could. What do they mean by "property"? They can only prohibit concealed weapons inside buildings. What offices are in the courthouse? Is this the exact and complete wording on the sign? Who put the sign up? Who is going to enforce it? Lots of questions to be answered. To be sure you don't violate any rule, just OC in the courthouse; problem solved.
    They do but they can't Constitutionally. It's called an infringement and therefore void. Saying that arent health departments private and therefore legally allowed to ban carry?
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    They do but they can't Constitutionally. It's called an infringement and therefore void. Saying that arent health departments private and therefore legally allowed to ban carry?
    That's great in theory and I agree. But don't confuse the way things are with the way things should be.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  20. #20
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I sent another email to Gateway District Health and urged them to get those signs down promptly, since they were already two years late. I got the following reply.

    Gutshot, the signs should be removed this week

    Greg Brewer

    You might check to see if they met their own deadline.
    I will keep an eye on it.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  21. #21
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    That's great in theory and I agree. But don't confuse the way things are with the way things should be.
    It's not a theory it's fact. Not enough people recognise it to be so and therefore the powers that be run riot, making illegal so-called 'laws'. We should be defending and obeying the Constitution not bowing to tyranny. I know what you mean however as the majority of the powers that be think these 'laws' are enforceable and will try. It's up to us to stop them.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Well, since you live in Wisconsin and you have straightened out everything up there, with no infringements left anywhere in your state, I invite you to come on down here and fix us hillbillies. We are oppressed by the worst gun laws on earth and could use your help and advice on how to get them back. I'll have the wife fix up the spare room, tonight. When could you get started?

    All of your posts are the same, ie.. It's unconstitutional...., we should be following the constitution..., no infringements.... blah, blah, blah, but I haven't seen or heard of you actually accomplishing anything, except bloviating. Repeating slogans over and over is useless and a bore. Give it a rest and do something constructive. Facts aren't facts until a judge says they are facts. Your opinion doesn't make anything a fact. If an opinion equaled a fact there would be billions of facts and all of them different.
    I have little choice. i'm way out in the country now working for bed a board with no other job in sight. All I can do is continue to advocate what I believe and what I believe every gun rights activist and patriot should just understand as a given. A judge cannot make a ruling contrary to the Constitution. Or they can but it's invalid. The people control the government, or should do. It's the failing of the people for allowing these so-called laws to be made. Much as i'd like to do something I don't have the financial ability. Not by a long shot. All I have are words here and on social networks.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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  23. #23
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    I have little choice. i'm way out in the country now working for bed a board with no other job in sight. All I can do is continue to advocate what I believe and what I believe every gun rights activist and patriot should just understand as a given. A judge cannot make a ruling contrary to the Constitution. Or they can but it's invalid. The people control the government, or should do. It's the failing of the people for allowing these so-called laws to be made. Much as i'd like to do something I don't have the financial ability. Not by a long shot. All I have are words here and on social networks.
    I have little choice.
    Neither do we. But we work with what we have.

    All I can do is continue to advocate what I believe and what I believe every gun rights activist and patriot should just understand as a given.
    That's all that we can continue to do as well.

    A judge cannot make a ruling contrary to the Constitution. Or they can but it's invalid
    .
    Really?! It sucks but it's done everyday. The 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments seem to be eroded daily in the courts. Remember what I say about the way things are vs. the way things should be?

    The people control the government, or should do.
    You're starting to get it.

    It's the failing of the people for allowing these so-called laws to be made.
    Read my Edmund Burke quote on my signature line.

    Much as i'd like to do something I don't have the financial ability.
    I can't speak for others, but after paying all my monthly bills, I'm not exactly eating steak every night. I do spend on a little gas and maybe a few sheets of paper and printer ink, but this type of work doesn't need a $500.00 a week budget.

    All I have are words here and on social networks.
    Words here are always welcome, but this is a pro-2a website. Not much work here to be done. It's the less than 2A friendly folks that need the talking to.
    Last edited by self preservation; 09-19-2014 at 08:34 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Well, since you live in Wisconsin and you have straightened out everything up there, with no infringements left anywhere in your state, I invite you to come on down here and fix us hillbillies. <snip>.
    Ahem, calling people "hillbillies" is offensive. Rednecks is the correct, non-offensive, term.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Ahem, calling people "hillbillies" is offensive. Rednecks is the correct, non-offensive, term.
    You evil liberal statist. How dare you dictate what to label people. That's an unconstitutional non law! So stand up and don't do it!

    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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