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Thread: conservatives' utter contempt for property rights

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    Exclamation conservatives' utter contempt for property rights

    No, I'm not even referring to the conservative embrace of taxes (particularly the early twentieth century progressives' income tax), though that is certinly one example of their disdain for property rights. I'm referring to the conservative meme that one has no right to desecrate a U.S. flag that one owns. You have the absolute right to do whatever you want with your own property, so long as it does not harm another.*

    The issue of gun rights, too, is fundamentally one of property. You have the right to own a fully automatic weapon, or any other weapon for that matter, because posession, in and of itself, does not harm others. People who understand that gun rights is really a specific case of property rights, should also understand that flag desecration is another specific case of property rights. With that in mind, I chose the avatar that I did to remind others on this message board of the essence of gun rights: you have the right to own property, and do with it what you see fit, so long as you do not harm another. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so gun rights people should not be upset over others desecrating U.S. flags that they paid for (or made, or bartered for, or however they became the rightful owner of the flag in question).


    * I'd make an exception for property that has sufficiently advanced nervous system, such as one's children (who, at an early age, clearly have some of the features of property in that they have no control over their comings and goings) and one's pets. Anyone who mistreats something with a sufficiently advanced nervous system is a piece of crap, even if that thing is some degree of property. You know what I mean though: inanimate things like flags may be desecrated in any way that the owner sees fit. They are not gods, contrary to what conservatives seem to think.
    Last edited by state hater; 08-23-2014 at 06:51 AM.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    I agree with all you wrote,,, 100%!!!

    Burning an American flag has been ruled by the courts as, protected 1st amendment free speech!!!

    I think anyone, anywhere, has the right to burn "their owned" flag,,, BUT
    Nobody should try to burn MY "owned" American flag!!!!

    Folks need buy their own!
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 08-23-2014 at 07:52 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    I'd never even consider stealing or damaging someone else's property (except under extreme circumstances, like self-defense).

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    Also, burning a flag is only secondarily a free speech issue. As Rothbard pointed out, free speech ultimately depends on the property on which it is taking place (you may not shout "fire" in someone else's theater if you don't have that person's permission, for instance). Property rights elegantly solve a lot of these conundrums.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by state hater View Post
    I'd never even consider stealing or damaging someone else's property (except under extreme circumstances, like self-defense).
    I never meant to imply you might try to burn mine,,, sooo
    I edited my post...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Yawn

    Meaningless thread!

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    Your nonsubstantive response is what's meaningless.

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    LOL Better a good error than a bad question.

    A well structured error may be falsified, while a badly formed question is an invitation to trollery.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Custodian's Avatar
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    This should be simple enough

    This is just my opinion but...

    Conservative = statist

    Liberal = statist

    Facist = statist

    Communist = statist

    Socialist = statist

    Monarchist(?) = statist

    So... pretty much, anyone who fits these labels, in some way, or another, is a statist, who, as a group, has shown contempt for some rights or another, when its inconvenient to their cause or views.

    Looks like only certain types of libertarians (I'm not sure about other Libertarians) and just pure Anarchists are seemingly the only real freedom lovers.

    The true heart of the matter is that the statist groups are a bunch of nannies, worryworts, serf-subjects, and annoying busybodies who have nothing else to do in their lives or serve some master cause to become the group that looks down on others. They can't stand the idea of people, just minding their own business, doing their own thing, solving problems on their own, and not needing every conceivable paid bureaucratic government goons in your life deciding every moment, and taking every dollar you have. Of the statist groups, I must add, conservatives, tend to be, sometimes, when its convenient, the least statist (unless you count law enforcement, the military, and the military industrial complex, oh wait..)
    Last edited by Custodian; 08-23-2014 at 09:24 AM.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

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    But do we own or control our land? We have to pay taxes (even after we pay for the land) - if not, they take it away. You cannot put whatever you want on your land - this needs approval from the gov't.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    But do we own or control our land? We have to pay taxes (even after we pay for the land) - if not, they take it away. You cannot put whatever you want on your land - this needs approval from the gov't.
    This is what I have been saying for decades. If you pay property taxes, then you are renting it, and if you stop paying the taxes, you will lose your property.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    It's really disheartening.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    first there are no property rights in America. Jefferson put them in but they took them out.

    next how would you feel about burning a cross on your own property?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    first there are no property rights in America. Jefferson put them in but they took them out.

    next how would you feel about burning a cross on your own property?
    Is it my cross and am I the one who ignited it???

    Can I fly a "stars & bars" confederate flag on my property?

    The answer is....It's MY property.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    first there are no property rights in America. Jefferson put them in but they took them out.

    next how would you feel about burning a cross on your own property?

    All rights are based on property rights they exist the world wide. Just because the state doesn't recognize them does not mean they do not exist.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    Meaningless thread!
    Quote Originally Posted by state hater View Post
    Your nonsubstantive response is what's meaningless.
    Gentlemen - there is no reason to slap each other!

    Again though, the connect to OCDO is a stretch.
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    Regular Member TexasOC's Avatar
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    I have a pair of underwear that takes the likeness of an American flag. If I forget to wipe, resulting in skidmarks, should I be thrown in jail?

    The whole burning flag debate is just stupid. Nationalism is fundamentally based on emotion, not reason.

    No victim, no crime.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Is it my cross and am I the one who ignited it???

    Can I fly a "stars & bars" confederate flag on my property?

    The answer is....It's MY property.
    just yo let you know. i think CA just banned all displays of the the "stars and bars". i believe that is on private property also
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    just yo let you know. i think CA just banned all displays of the the "stars and bars". i believe that is on private property also
    Did they ban this also?


    Apparently the First-teenth Amendment is suffering some in California.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Why do people believe that their purchased property in the US is somehow their own kingdom and no longer part of the US?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    just yo let you know. i think CA just banned all displays of the the "stars and bars". i believe that is on private property also
    No, they merely banned the state from selling or displaying merchandise with the flag (for instance, in state-owned gift shops).

    Still dumb.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    Why do people believe that their purchased property in the US is somehow their own kingdom and no longer part of the US?
    Why does the US think other peoples property (their kingdoms ) are some how to be controlled by the US?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    Why do people believe that their purchased property in the US is somehow their own kingdom and no longer part of the US?
    Why? Because people long to rule themselves. When someone creates a home they want to be master of it. We want to protect it, nurture it and rule it. Your collectivism threatens my individuality and freedom and I reject it.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  24. #24
    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Why? Because people long to rule themselves. When someone creates a home they want to be master of it. We want to protect it, nurture it and rule it. Your collectivism threatens my individuality and freedom and I reject it.
    Then go start your own country and don't be part of this one...

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    Then go start your own country and don't be part of this one...
    Right, because the Federal Government is well-known to be supportive of the right to secede.

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