• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

conservatives' utter contempt for property rights

state hater

Banned
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
199
Location
new hampshire
No, I'm not even referring to the conservative embrace of taxes (particularly the early twentieth century progressives' income tax), though that is certinly one example of their disdain for property rights. I'm referring to the conservative meme that one has no right to desecrate a U.S. flag that one owns. You have the absolute right to do whatever you want with your own property, so long as it does not harm another.*

The issue of gun rights, too, is fundamentally one of property. You have the right to own a fully automatic weapon, or any other weapon for that matter, because posession, in and of itself, does not harm others. People who understand that gun rights is really a specific case of property rights, should also understand that flag desecration is another specific case of property rights. With that in mind, I chose the avatar that I did to remind others on this message board of the essence of gun rights: you have the right to own property, and do with it what you see fit, so long as you do not harm another. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so gun rights people should not be upset over others desecrating U.S. flags that they paid for (or made, or bartered for, or however they became the rightful owner of the flag in question).


* I'd make an exception for property that has sufficiently advanced nervous system, such as one's children (who, at an early age, clearly have some of the features of property in that they have no control over their comings and goings) and one's pets. Anyone who mistreats something with a sufficiently advanced nervous system is a piece of crap, even if that thing is some degree of property. You know what I mean though: inanimate things like flags may be desecrated in any way that the owner sees fit. They are not gods, contrary to what conservatives seem to think.
 
Last edited:

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

I agree with all you wrote,,, 100%!!!

Burning an American flag has been ruled by the courts as, protected 1st amendment free speech!!!

I think anyone, anywhere, has the right to burn "their owned" flag,,, BUT
Nobody should try to burn MY "owned" American flag!!!!

Folks need buy their own!
 
Last edited:

state hater

Banned
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
199
Location
new hampshire
I'd never even consider stealing or damaging someone else's property (except under extreme circumstances, like self-defense).
 

state hater

Banned
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
199
Location
new hampshire
Also, burning a flag is only secondarily a free speech issue. As Rothbard pointed out, free speech ultimately depends on the property on which it is taking place (you may not shout "fire" in someone else's theater if you don't have that person's permission, for instance). Property rights elegantly solve a lot of these conundrums.
 

Custodian

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
283
Location
The Capital City of Oaks - Raleigh, NC
This should be simple enough

This is just my opinion but...

Conservative = statist

Liberal = statist

Facist = statist

Communist = statist

Socialist = statist

Monarchist(?) = statist

So... pretty much, anyone who fits these labels, in some way, or another, is a statist, who, as a group, has shown contempt for some rights or another, when its inconvenient to their cause or views.

Looks like only certain types of libertarians (I'm not sure about other Libertarians) and just pure Anarchists are seemingly the only real freedom lovers.

The true heart of the matter is that the statist groups are a bunch of nannies, worryworts, serf-subjects, and annoying busybodies who have nothing else to do in their lives or serve some master cause to become the group that looks down on others. They can't stand the idea of people, just minding their own business, doing their own thing, solving problems on their own, and not needing every conceivable paid bureaucratic government goons in your life deciding every moment, and taking every dollar you have. Of the statist groups, I must add, conservatives, tend to be, sometimes, when its convenient, the least statist (unless you count law enforcement, the military, and the military industrial complex, oh wait..)
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
But do we own or control our land? We have to pay taxes (even after we pay for the land) - if not, they take it away. You cannot put whatever you want on your land - this needs approval from the gov't.
 

OC Freedom

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
But do we own or control our land? We have to pay taxes (even after we pay for the land) - if not, they take it away. You cannot put whatever you want on your land - this needs approval from the gov't.

This is what I have been saying for decades. If you pay property taxes, then you are renting it, and if you stop paying the taxes, you will lose your property.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
first there are no property rights in America. Jefferson put them in but they took them out.

next how would you feel about burning a cross on your own property?
 

F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
941
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
first there are no property rights in America. Jefferson put them in but they took them out.

next how would you feel about burning a cross on your own property?

Is it my cross and am I the one who ignited it???

Can I fly a "stars & bars" confederate flag on my property?

The answer is....It's MY property.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
first there are no property rights in America. Jefferson put them in but they took them out.

next how would you feel about burning a cross on your own property?


All rights are based on property rights they exist the world wide. Just because the state doesn't recognize them does not mean they do not exist.
 

TexasOC

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
41
Location
Texas
I have a pair of underwear that takes the likeness of an American flag. If I forget to wipe, resulting in skidmarks, should I be thrown in jail?

The whole burning flag debate is just stupid. Nationalism is fundamentally based on emotion, not reason.

No victim, no crime.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
Is it my cross and am I the one who ignited it???

Can I fly a "stars & bars" confederate flag on my property?

The answer is....It's MY property.

just yo let you know. i think CA just banned all displays of the the "stars and bars". i believe that is on private property also
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
just yo let you know. i think CA just banned all displays of the the "stars and bars". i believe that is on private property also

Did they ban this also?


Apparently the First-teenth Amendment is suffering some in California.
 
Top