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Thread: A glimmer of hope in a weary world...

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    A glimmer of hope in a weary world...

    I had to share this NY Times article on second thoughts about arming local police in paramilitary style.
    Last edited by rapgood; 08-24-2014 at 06:44 PM.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    I had to share this NY Times article on second thoughts about arming local police in paramilitary style.
    I'm glad to see some attention, finally, to this. It's maddening that these reporters act like they're the first people ever to consider the topic, since people like Radley Balko have been covering this for a decade or more.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    "More than $5 billion worth of equipment has been transferred since the program was started."

    "The White House-led review will consider whether the government should continue providing such equipment..."

    hmmm after the horses have run off let's consider whether or not we should close the barn door.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    "More than $5 billion worth of equipment has been transferred since the program was started."

    "The White House-led review will consider whether the government should continue providing such equipment..."

    hmmm after the horses have run off let's consider whether or not we should close the barn door.
    Whaaaat??? There's a door???
    I guess Homeland Security kept that a secret!!!
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I don't what type gear the police have, just as long as no one complains about what type of gear I have.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I don't what type gear the police have, just as long as no one complains about what type of gear I have.
    Spoken from pure ignorance.

    You have no idea the types of 'tools' the military is using for 'domestic control' over seas -- that can be re-purposed for use in America for the same activity.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    "More than $5 billion worth of equipment has been transferred since the program was started."
    Knowing the Feds, 5 billion could = 2 toilet seats and a few pair of aviator glasses. [/rimshot]

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    Whaaaat??? There's a door???
    I guess Homeland Security kept that a secret!!!

    No no no, they were never a secret, they're "transparent"!

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    No no no, they were never a secret, they're "transparent"!
    heh heh heh nice.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    I had to share this NY Times article on second thoughts about arming local police in paramilitary style.
    Do not conflate SWAT and their mistakes with cops and there protective gear. If I think I need a AR then the cop gets one too.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Do not conflate SWAT and their mistakes with cops and there protective gear. If I think I need a AR then the cop gets one too.
    I was waiting to post something like this today but you beat me to it. I'd buy you beer if I could.

    I heard on fox a guy taking about this very issue. Basically heres the deal, and I'll use Fergeson as an example:

    1) they don't even have military gear. Those are NOT tanks nor even military surplus vehicles. Oc spray, body armor, ar15s, non lethal shotguns (the pretty colored ones) are all non military gear. Its called propaganda. Yea they are wearing army clothing and carrying rifles..... Wwwooooo scary.

    2) the issue is WHEN and HOW SWAT is deployed. The shouldn't be out smushing protestors. They should be saving hostages or serving actual high threat warrants (like ax murderer crap).

    Some of these same tools are used against gun owners. "Wow scary black military rifles" or "wow carrying a pistol is way too extreme and scary". Etc. Etc.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    There should be no SWAT.

    Cops should be able to own what ever they want as their personal weapons.

    They should be heavily restricted to what they can use in their so called "service".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    There should be no SWAT.

    Cops should be able to own what ever they want as their personal weapons.

    They should be heavily restricted to what they can use in their so called "service".
    +1

    Disband all SWAT. SWAT trained cops will remain.

    Compare the images of Aurora's Constitution Suspension Event and the Boston Constitution Suspension Event. The most casual of observers the threat to liberty and public safety is easily seen.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    There should be no SWAT.

    Cops should be able to own what ever they want as their personal weapons.

    They should be heavily restricted to what they can use in their so called "service".
    +2

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    I had to share this NY Times article on second thoughts about arming local police in paramilitary style.
    +1 By the way for the thread. I do to see hope in the rise of knowledge and unification of the anti militarization of the police and people getting wise to the rising police state.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1 By the way for the thread. I do to see hope in the rise of knowledge and unification of the anti militarization of the police and people getting wise to the rising police state.
    Sorry it's not going to happen. In the history of the world, barring the French Revolution, it's never happened that people in power give up or are made to give up their power unless they are all killed first. It will only get worse because as the opinion goes against this more and more they will realize a need to really shut people up.

    It's sad, and I hope I live a long time, but I hope in that time, I don't live to see the world of "Minority Report".

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    There should be no SWAT.

    Cops should be able to own what ever they want as their personal weapons.

    They should be heavily restricted to what they can use in their so called "service".
    Yup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    [ ... ] It's sad, and I hope I live a long time, but I hope in that time, I don't live to see the world of "Minority Report".
    When they come for your guns, take one or two with you. I don't want to live in that world.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Sorry it's not going to happen. In the history of the world, barring the French Revolution, it's never happened that people in power give up or are made to give up their power unless they are all killed first. It will only get worse because as the opinion goes against this more and more they will realize a need to really shut people up.

    It's sad, and I hope I live a long time, but I hope in that time, I don't live to see the world of "Minority Report".
    Sad to say your generally correct. They just won't parade it around. Or they will paint it different colors to make it pleasantly pleasing.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Sorry it's not going to happen. In the history of the world, barring the French Revolution, it's never happened that people in power give up or are made to give up their power unless they are all killed first. It will only get worse because as the opinion goes against this more and more they will realize a need to really shut people up.

    It's sad, and I hope I live a long time, but I hope in that time, I don't live to see the world of "Minority Report".
    I'm not quite defeatist yet. You may be right but lets hang on to those glimmer of hopes we get, push liberty and educate people about their rights and to be anti statist.

    Minority report, you are already there. Proactive policing, cops getting dogs because they suspect you, spending hrs on a man hunt for suspicion of "obstruction" and no other charge. You stand up against the state, you exercise your rights they assume you have something to hide.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Aurora's Constitution Suspension Event and the Boston Constitution Suspension Event are examples of "group think." A drone reports 'X' and all the other drones will act solely on that single report. It matters not that the drone could be wrong, or right, the report is made and action must follow. Rightness or wrongness of the report is a secondary consideration.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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