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Thread: If obstruction is the only charge there is no crime!

  1. #1
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    If obstruction is the only charge there is no crime!

    Notice how the feds helped in this case were the only known thing the guy did was to duck away from the cops.

    http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2014.../99/100/&ihp=1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  2. #2
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Notice how the feds helped in this case were the only known thing the guy did was to duck away from the cops.

    http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2014.../99/100/&ihp=1
    Guess you missed the warrant he had and the b&e charges.

    Innocent dudes don't just run through the woods break into house traverse swamps for HOURS to avoid being detained.

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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  3. #3
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Guess you missed the warrant he had and the b&e charges.

    Innocent dudes don't just run through the woods break into house traverse swamps for HOURS to avoid being detained.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

    Sometimes us innocent dudes walk just inside our neighbor's property line and pretend we can't hear the cop demanding that we hand over our deer rifles.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    Sometimes us innocent dudes walk just inside our neighbor's property line and pretend we can't hear the cop demanding that we hand over our deer rifles.
    Maybe.

    That's not breaking into a house or running through swamps and woods for hrs....

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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Interesting story. The comments on the story are equally as interesting.

    "Merry Teesdale · Bellingham, Washington
    It was upsetting to have a very noisy helicopter circling me, my house, helpers, for hours, upsetting my cows and all of us for hours, and to have big men in uniforms and tracking dogs running around my land most of the day. A lot of the time, the helicopter wasn't looking where the guy was supposed to be. Then, even though they caught the guy the day before, the next day, Saturday, a Border Patrol guy was in my woods with a rifle without permission. The same officer came back again today with the rifle in the front seat, driving up the road. I caught him and asked him to leave.
    Here's the thing. No one ever really saw a gun. No gun has been recovered. I thought one had to commit a crime or at least have probable cause to be arrested."

    "Suni Hardwick
    I live on Hoff road, nobody informed me to stay inside. When I asked the border patrol officer about it, he gave me a response, that they were obviously not looking for me."

    "Annette Townsend · Western Washington University
    Nope, nothing said to me either - I drove right by two of them standing next to a patrol car sitting at the RR crossing at Country Lane, and they didn't even say anything, just waved me on."

    "Annette Townsend · Western Washington University
    And that response you got from them was pretty unprofessional."

    "Gini Bates Detering · Lake Washington High School
    I know Leah Linscott Travers was upset about it too. It's pretty scary"
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Guess you missed the warrant he had and the b&e charges.

    Innocent dudes don't just run through the woods break into house traverse swamps for HOURS to avoid being detained.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    They didn't know that at the time...... , guess you missed that part of the article.

    Those pesky constitutional restrictions get in your way eh?
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-25-2014 at 08:52 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    Sometimes us innocent dudes walk just inside our neighbor's property line and pretend we can't hear the cop demanding that we hand over our deer rifles.
    Nice fallacy.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Interesting story. The comments on the story are equally as interesting.

    "Merry Teesdale · Bellingham, Washington
    It was upsetting to have a very noisy helicopter circling me, my house, helpers, for hours, upsetting my cows and all of us for hours, and to have big men in uniforms and tracking dogs running around my land most of the day. A lot of the time, the helicopter wasn't looking where the guy was supposed to be. Then, even though they caught the guy the day before, the next day, Saturday, a Border Patrol guy was in my woods with a rifle without permission. The same officer came back again today with the rifle in the front seat, driving up the road. I caught him and asked him to leave.
    Here's the thing. No one ever really saw a gun. No gun has been recovered. I thought one had to commit a crime or at least have probable cause to be arrested."

    "Suni Hardwick
    I live on Hoff road, nobody informed me to stay inside. When I asked the border patrol officer about it, he gave me a response, that they were obviously not looking for me."

    "Annette Townsend · Western Washington University
    Nope, nothing said to me either - I drove right by two of them standing next to a patrol car sitting at the RR crossing at Country Lane, and they didn't even say anything, just waved me on."

    "Annette Townsend · Western Washington University
    And that response you got from them was pretty unprofessional."

    "Gini Bates Detering · Lake Washington High School
    I know Leah Linscott Travers was upset about it too. It's pretty scary"
    Glad a non apologist decided to way in .

    Yea many folks in the county areas up here are getting a little tired of the FEDS being all over and into everything.

    They harass people with their helicopters a few years ago a guy finally decided to go outside and confront them by shining a light at the guy hovering just above his property in the middle of the night. Guess who went to jail.

    I just can't believe they wasted all that time and the only thing they knew was he ditched the cops. They had no warrant , no idea who it was, but were pissed this guy evaded them. Even when there no "official contact". Then to call in the border patrol for a local problem....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Glad a non apologist decided to way in .

    Yea many folks in the county areas up here are getting a little tired of the FEDS being all over and into everything.

    They harass people with their helicopters a few years ago a guy finally decided to go outside and confront them by shining a light at the guy hovering just above his property in the middle of the night. Guess who went to jail.

    I just can't believe they wasted all that time and the only thing they knew was he ditched the cops. They had no warrant , no idea who it was, but were pissed this guy evaded them. Even when there no "official contact". Then to call in the border patrol for a local problem....
    He was concealing a rifle. That's how the call came in. suspicious male armed with rifle he was attempting to conceal. When they approached the male he then ran.

    You keep leaving that part out. Its disingenuous.

    Oh and they were right that he was doing something or running for a reason.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    He was concealing a rifle. That's how the call came in. suspicious male armed with rifle he was attempting to conceal. When they approached the male he then ran.

    You keep leaving that part out. Its disingenuous.

    Oh and they were right that he was doing something or running for a reason.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    No I didn't leave that out. Quit lying, I posted the article, which states in the article itself, the only charge they were looking for him were obstructing.

    They had no RS or no PC other than he hid from cops, which isn't illegal and doesn't ad up to RS or PC. They had no idea at the time, if rifle was unloaded or legal, no idea he had charges against him, ( I noticed how you tried to sneak that into the conversation), no idea who he was, actually had no idea if it was a rifle or not either.

    So If I am walking down the street see some cop come creeping up on me and I decide to walk into the woods because I don't want to deal with your busy body ass, they should go on a massive man hunt?

    The pesky constitution, you just want to ignore it for your hunches?
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-25-2014 at 09:19 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Nice fallacy.
    Not mere fallacy, but scofflaw for Wisconsins presumed trespass.
    Wisc. Stats. § 943.13 (1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    (a) Enters any enclosed, cultivated or undeveloped land of another, other than open land specified in par. (e) or (f), without the express or implied consent of the owner or occupant.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The pesky constitution, you just want to ignore it for your hunches?
    Why, yes! They do!
    Dang that pesky old constitution! Sure do get in the way, don't it???
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Nice fallacy.

    Nope. There's a thread on it. First one I posted.

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Not mere fallacy, but scofflaw for Wisconsins presumed trespass.

    Not trespassing if I had permission to hunt on it.

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    The cops just follow him around; called paranoia.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    He was concealing a rifle. That's how the call came in. suspicious male armed with rifle he was attempting to conceal. When they approached the male he then ran.

    You keep leaving that part out. Its disingenuous.

    Oh and they were right that he was doing something or running for a reason.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    The RAS: A man wearing black, black, and black, carrying what looks like could be a gun.

    A concerned citizen first saw the man dressed in all black — a black tank top, black jeans and a black baseball cap turned backwards — walking along the railroad tracks near Marine Drive late Friday morning. The man held what looked like a rifle or a shotgun hidden under a cloth, said Whatcom County Sheriff’s Chief Criminal Deputy Doug Chadwick.
    NO! It is alleged by a citizen that what the caller said they saw looks like a ____. Not is a ____. This is all the "reasonably believed cop" needs to get busy. Unconfirmed allegations by someone who does not know for certain what they saw. That suspicion (guess) must not carry the weight of unassailable fact. But to the cops it is a fact until proven otherwise. Bassakwards logic, thug logic.

    The cops knew nothing about the man until after he was arrested. They got lucky.
    During the manhunt, the man was wanted for only one charge: obstructing law enforcement.
    RCW 9A.76.020 Obstructing a law enforcement officer.

    (1) A person is guilty of obstructing a law enforcement officer if the person willfully hinders, delays, or obstructs any law enforcement officer in the discharge of his or her official powers or duties.

    (2) "Law enforcement officer" means any general authority, limited authority, or specially commissioned Washington peace officer or federal peace officer as those terms are defined in RCW 10.93.020, and other public officers who are responsible for enforcement of fire, building, zoning, and life and safety codes.

    (3) Obstructing a law enforcement officer is a gross misdemeanor.
    So, the cops can claim obstruction based only on a unsubstantiated report. Facts are not needed, it appears, in Whatcom County.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post

    So If I am walking down the street see some cop come creeping up on me and I decide to walk into the woods because I don't want to deal with your busy body ass...
    It would be safer for all citizens to do so, since we don't know if we might encounter that one cop who said basically if we don't wanna get shot we shouldn't come in to his proximity.

    P.s. I absolutely love your sass, Rob. Thanks for the giggle!

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The cops just follow him around; called paranoia.

    And your ex wife followed you around after filing for and getting a restraining order. Conspiracies!

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    He was concealing a rifle. That's how the call came in. suspicious male armed with rifle he was attempting to conceal. When they approached the male he then ran.

    You keep leaving that part out. Its disingenuous.

    Oh and they were right that he was doing something or running for a reason.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    So... the ONLY legal method to transport a long gun is by clearly marked bag/case that says RIFLE or it's being concealed? Does that mean my rifle sock is illegal and I should expect you to arrest me for concealing at the gun range?
    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

  20. #20
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    So... the ONLY legal method to transport a long gun is by clearly marked bag/case that says RIFLE or it's being concealed? Does that mean my rifle sock is illegal and I should expect you to arrest me for concealing at the gun range?
    You shouldnt expect me to do anything because short of shooting someone I could care less what you do.

    But your taking it out of context. Dude wasn't at range.

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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  21. #21
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    No I didn't leave that out. Quit lying, I posted the article, which states in the article itself, the only charge they were looking for him were obstructing.

    They had no RS or no PC other than he hid from cops, which isn't illegal and doesn't ad up to RS or PC. They had no idea at the time, if rifle was unloaded or legal, no idea he had charges against him, ( I noticed how you tried to sneak that into the conversation), no idea who he was, actually had no idea if it was a rifle or not either.

    So If I am walking down the street see some cop come creeping up on me and I decide to walk into the woods because I don't want to deal with your busy body ass, they should go on a massive man hunt?

    The pesky constitution, you just want to ignore it for your hunches?
    I really wish there was a like button on this forum.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    Why, yes! They do!
    Dang that pesky old constitution! Sure do get in the way, don't it???
    +1

    Seems like the apologist/cop in this thread don't seem to like those restrictions.



    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    It would be safer for all citizens to do so, since we don't know if we might encounter that one cop who said basically if we don't wanna get shot we shouldn't come in to his proximity.

    P.s. I absolutely love your sass, Rob. Thanks for the giggle!
    +1
    And thankyou, sometimes you can use a carrot to lead the ass...other times a carrot is useless.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    Nope. There's a thread on it. First one I posted.
    Trespassing has nothing to do with this thread or argument.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Trespassing has nothing to do with this thread or argument.
    Nor did the cops claim such prior to arresting the citizen.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    [ ... ] Conspiracies!
    Projection psychology pathology.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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