How much more dangerous are open carriers with badges?

PeterNSteinmetz · Aug 24, 2014

Here is a question I was pondering today that I thought would be interesting to get members' thoughts about. From a statistical perspective, for the average law-abiding citizen, how much more dangerous, if at all, are people openly carrying firearms who wear badges than open-carriers that don't have a badge?

My thoughts are that non badge-carrying people who open carry are largely an extremely law abiding peaceful group. (Clearly concealed carriers as a whole would be less so since criminals are usually carrying concealed until the beginning of the criminal act.)

OTOH, people with badges and open-carrying have a much harder job, trying to deal with the criminal element. They are exposed to more situations where a mistake could be made and a law-abiding citizen threatened with or injured by a firearm.

This comparison seems like it could well inform the question of whether a person seeing an open-carrier without a badge should be more afraid than when seeing one with a badge.

davidmcbeth · Aug 24, 2014

PeterNSteinmetz said:
<snip>

OTOH, people with badges and open-carrying have a much harder job, trying to deal with the criminal element. .

Harder job than who? I don't think that they work harder than any of the rest of us (they have a pretty easy job when compared to others IMO, much easier) ... and OSHA stats show that they are pretty safe as far as employees go...safer than my group and likely safer than most on the board.

Not to many stories of OCers going nuts ... OCers are, as you said, very conservative of pulling their guns out.

Cops? They pull their guns out many more times unnecessarily than regular citizens do. I've had about 20% of cops pull guns out during traffic stops. They appear to be rather afraid in their own job.

PeterNSteinmetz · Aug 24, 2014

davidmcbeth said:
Harder job than who? I don't think that they work harder than any of the rest of us (they have a pretty easy job when compared to others IMO, much easier) ... and OSHA stats show that they are pretty safe as far as employees go...safer than my group and likely safer than most on the board.

Good point. I just meant more difficult to handle a firearm appropriately in offensive use against criminals than the largely defensive use that most non badge-carrying OCers are concerned with.

davidmcbeth · Aug 24, 2014

PeterNSteinmetz said:
Good point. I just meant more difficult to handle a firearm appropriately in offensive use against criminals than the largely defensive use that most non badge-carrying OCers are concerned with.

Maybe..but they get to shoot 1000 rds w/o worrying about being put into the slammer.

Grapeshot · Aug 25, 2014

The perspective on this thread is contrary to OCDO's position on law enforcement personnel.

First LEOs and security officers are not in the general sense OCers - they carry as part of their employment, not to defend and normalize the acceptance of common folk doing so - that being the principal reason for this forum.

There have been several studies/reports (some previous reported on these pages) that yes, OCers generally are more safe, practice more, and cause less collateral damage - Why? Because the day-to-day exposure is less, not greater.

http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/kdowst/competen.html

http://www.gunfacts.info/

Consider approaching this subject from the POV suggested by the above links. Mind the Forum Rules and tread with care to avoid a lock.

wimwag · Aug 25, 2014

In before the lock.

Please proceed.

1245A Defender · Aug 25, 2014

Wowwie!!!

Sooooo,,, Now I get it!!!!

The OP is not wondering about me.
An Open Carrier that would NOT wear a badge...

The OP is not wondering about some others,
that Open Carry that buy and wear a badge that says,,
"Open Carry Badge",
"Concealed Carry Badge" or
"Law Abiding Citizen Badge".....

Oh No,, that is not his Question.

He is addressing the difference between Lawfully armed private citizens out and about in our day to day lives!
Annnnd,,,
Costumed agents of the state that open carry the power of their authority and wear a shiny BADGE!

I can say with some certainty that the agents of the state are Much More Dangerous,,, too Everybody!!!

And IBTL

Primus · Aug 25, 2014

Yea costumed badged guys are definitely terrifying.

I always run away screaming when firefighters show up.

WalkingWolf · Aug 25, 2014

Primus said:
Yea costumed badged guys are definitely terrifying.

I always run away screaming when firefighters show up.

Church on fire?

The Truth · Aug 25, 2014

Where is state hater or TexasOC to get this locked for sure? :lol:

Firearms Iinstuctor · Aug 25, 2014

Grapeshot said:
First LEOs and security officers are not in the general sense OCers - they carry as part of their employment, not to defend and normalize the acceptance of common folk doing so - that being the principal reason for this forum.

There have been several studies/reports (some previous reported on these pages) that yes, OCers generally are more safe, practice more, and cause less collateral damage - Why? Because the day-to-day exposure is less, not greater.

As stated by many OCers here that they would turn away from instead of going towards gun fire.

As a non LEO carrier one does not go about their day purposely looking for bad guys to confront.

One is not contacting people under stressful situations on purpose.

Very hard comparison to do they just are not the same.

OC for ME · Aug 25, 2014

If cops were peace officers vs. revenue collectors I suspect that the hazards of the job would diminish drastically.

I strongly recommend that you rephrase the below.

My thoughts are that non badge-carrying people who open carry are largely an extremely law abiding peaceful group. (Clearly concealed carriers as a whole would be less so since criminals are usually carrying concealed until the beginning of the criminal act.)

If you need assistance please let me know.

Primus · Aug 25, 2014

OC for ME said:
If cops were peace officers vs. revenue collectors I suspect that the hazards of the job would diminish drastically.

I strongly recommend that you rephrase the below.

If you need assistance please let me know.

Irony is the most dangerous calls have nothing to do with collecting money for anyone.

Last I checked most officers are killed or hurt at domestics or serving warrants. Neither provide money to state.

Both would be a "peace officer" function.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Freedom1Man · Aug 25, 2014

Primus said:
Irony is the most dangerous calls have nothing to do with collecting money for anyone.

Last I checked most officers are killed or hurt at domestics or serving warrants. Neither provide money to state.

Both would be a "peace officer" function.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Yeah the warrants are for not paying the state and the DV arrests get more money for the state upon railroading, I mean conviction.

And convictions gain the state more slaves, oh um prisoners to force to labor.

Primus · Aug 25, 2014

Freedom1Man said:
Yeah the warrants are for not paying the state and the DV arrests get more money for the state upon railroading, I mean conviction.

And convictions gain the state more slaves, oh um prisoners to force to labor.

Cute.... Completely baseless and inaccurate but points for cuteness.

I applaud the propaganda.

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sudden valley gunner · Aug 25, 2014

Freedom1Man said:
Yeah the warrants are for not paying the state and the DV arrests get more money for the state upon railroading, I mean conviction.

And convictions gain the state more slaves, oh um prisoners to force to labor.

Or the fact that they and their unions pressure politicians to steal more and more money for this so called "safety".

Much of the danger is escalated by the "saver".

OC for ME · Aug 25, 2014

Primus said:
Irony is the most dangerous calls have nothing to do with collecting money for anyone.

Last I checked most officers are killed or hurt at domestics or serving warrants. Neither provide money to state.

Both would be a "peace officer" function.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

I suspect that many of the warrants issued by a municipality are for completely "non-criminal" events. Warrants being served because a citizen failed to pay a fine for a infraction. I suspect that the risk associated with a warrant served for a infraction not getting addressed (paid) by the perp is analogous to a cop being in harms way for pulling over the speeding citizen.

OC Freedom · Aug 25, 2014

Freedom1Man said:
Yeah the warrants are for not paying the state and the DV arrests get more money for the state upon railroading, I mean conviction.

And convictions gain the state more slaves, oh um prisoners to force to labor.

+1

Primus · Aug 25, 2014

OC for ME said:
I suspect that many of the warrants issued by a municipality are for completely "non-criminal" events. Warrants being served because a citizen failed to pay a fine for a infraction. I suspect that the risk associated with a warrant served for a infraction not getting addressed (paid) by the perp is analogous to a cop being in harms way for pulling over the speeding citizen.

You can suspect all you want.... Doesn't mean its accurate...

And where have you been? A cop is in harms way every time he pulls over a speeding citizen.

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wimwag · Aug 25, 2014

Freedom1Man said:
Yeah the warrants are for not paying the state and the DV arrests get more money for the state upon railroading, I mean conviction.

And convictions gain the state more slaves, oh um prisoners to force to labor.

I was once served papers by a deputy for not giving a landlord $980 to pull 7 staples (that were already there) out of a balcony railing. It had nothing to do with money owed to anyone but me. He sued me, I won. Simple economics.

How much more dangerous are open carriers with badges?

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