Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Dude, where's my MRAP? Weapons of War for cops in Virginia

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Dude, where's my MRAP? Weapons of War for cops in Virginia

    Say, why can't we, the people, have any of this?

    Police or soldiers? Agencies locally and across Virginia have weapons of war
    Armored personnel carriers with gun ports, compact submachine guns with 30-round magazines, precision battlefield sniper rifles, and military-grade assault-style rifles and carbines have become standard gear in the arsenals of Richmond-area police departments.

    Across other parts of Virginia, law enforcement agencies in 105 localities — including 10 in central Virginia — have received as military surplus more than 2,800 tactical firearms, vehicles and other instruments of war without cost from the U.S. Department of Defense.

    “Just looking at it, I would say it’s a bit frightening,” John W. Whitehead, a constitutional attorney and president of the Rutherford Institute, a civil liberties group, said of what he describes as the emerging American police state. “I don’t know what the reason for it is. Crime is at a 40-year low, murder rates are drastically down.

    “I live in Charlottesville and the police tell me there’s no crime, but they’re armed to the teeth.

    Whitehead also decries the military-style appearance that police forces sometimes display, with officers in combat fatigues, helmets and boots, sometimes aboard armored vehicles more commonly seen in war zones.

    Claire Guthrie Gastañaga, executive director of the ACLU of Virginia, says there is virtually no civilian oversight of the sophisticated tactical weapons that local police departments are acquiring, either through regular budget purchases or free surplus from the federal government.

    “We think it’s extraordinarily important that police understand that, to the extent that they’re going to become military organizations, that civilian oversight even becomes more important,” she said. “Just as our American military has the oversight of the Defense Department and Congress, so should our local law enforcement agencies that are now local militaries.”

    She added, “The community should have a role in what weapons they have, how they are going to police, what they’re going to use those weapons for and how well trained they are.”
    Do we really want cops to become heavily-armed soldiers? What rationale could possible justify this? Well, see here:
    Police point to what they consider to be game-changing shooting incidents over the past 50 years that they say influenced law enforcement tactics and armaments.

    They said SWAT units began to proliferate in the late 1960s and early 1970s after the tower shootings at the University of Texas in Austin, where a student and former Marine randomly killed 11 people while perched from the 28th-floor observation deck.

    Another defining event occurred in North Hollywood, Calif., in 1997, when two bank robbers clad in body armor engaged Los Angeles police with illegally modified, fully automatic assault rifles with high-capacity drum magazines in the street. Patrol officers were outgunned, carrying only 9 mm or .38-caliber handguns and 12-gauge shotguns.

    Eleven police officers and seven civilians were wounded and numerous vehicles and property were damaged or destroyed by the nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the police and robbers, who eventually were killed.

    In subsequent years, many departments across the country began acquiring military-style patrol rifles and boosting their firepower.
    What a crock of ...

    As I recall, Charles Whitman was pinned down by local citizens with hunting rifles until some cops could get up there behind Whitman and shoot him dead. As for the North Hollywood incident, I think some local gun shops helped out.

    Get this, the VSP refused all FOIA requests. So, have they gone dark?

    Virginia State Police refuses to disclose publicly funded weapons and vehicles
    The Rutherford Institute in Charlottesville, the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia and the Virginia Coalition of Open Government questioned why state police would not release basic descriptions of their taxpayer-funded firearms stock and equipment.

    “Transparency in government is the basis of democratic freedom,” said John W. Whitehead, a constitutional lawyer and president of the Rutherford Institute. “If the American public is paying for it, and we’re supposedly the masters, then the servants should tell us what they have if we need to know.”

    State police twice denied Freedom of Information Act requests filed by the Richmond Times-Dispatch seeking complete inventories of the department’s weapons and armored vehicles. The agency provided a partial list that included handguns, shotguns and several vehicles, but denied all the rest, citing a FOIA exemption that allows discretionary release of “specific tactical plans,” which the newspaper did not request.

    ...

    In the second denial letter, state police Superintendent W. Steven Flaherty said disclosing the requested information “would pose a potential threat to the safety of our officers and the public” by allowing others to assess the department’s capabilities.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    In any case, check out the databases compiled by the Times-Dispatch. Do we have a Standing Army?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Do we have a Standing Army?
    Officially? Of course not. Unofficially? You bet your a$$!

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    But you CAN .. you know where to find one ....

  4. #4
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Military grade assault style rifles? Lol ate those the black ones everyone has? Or the cool painted ones?

    Whatever happened to not falling for names and terms that antis use to make it seem like our guns are scary and extra killy?

    Precision battlefield sniper rifle? You mean a Remington 700 chambered in .308? Scary...

    Tactical firearms? Are those the ones with flashlights on it? Or the ones with laser beams?

    And my favorite.. "Instruments of war". Really? Is that like a weapon of mass destruction? Do they have tac nukes? (Nukes with flashlights/laser beams)

    Or is any weapon used for "war"? Does that include my pocket knife if I carry it into "war"?

    Sounds like an anti gun guy wrote the article with all the anti catch phrases he uses....

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  5. #5
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doug
    Posts
    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    But you CAN .. you know where to find one ....

    Lol. HMMVWs don't need keys

  6. #6
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doug
    Posts
    1,118
    Tactical firearm...my P22 has a threaded barrel...check.



    Military grade assault rifle...my Mosin was issued by the Soviet Army in 1943...check.



    Precision battlefield sniper rifle...I bought a $60 scout scope for my mosin...check.



    Instrument of war...mosin comes with bayonet...check.



    The bayonet also doubles as a screwdriver, so if I lose the headspace tool I can break down the rifle. It has two uses and is black which makes it tactical.



    I'm so operator.
    Last edited by wimwag; 08-25-2014 at 06:24 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern Piedmont-Culpeper
    Posts
    176
    [QUOTE=Primus;2085680]Military grade assault style rifles? Lol ate those the black ones everyone has? Or the cool painted ones?

    Whatever happened to not falling for names and terms that antis use to make it seem like our guns are scary and extra killy?

    Precision battlefield sniper rifle? You mean a Remington 700 chambered in .308? Scary...

    Tactical firearms? Are those the ones with flashlights on it? Or the ones with laser beams?

    And my favorite.. "Instruments of war". Really? Is that like a weapon of mass destruction? Do they have tac nukes? (Nukes with flashlights/laser beams)

    Or is any weapon used for "war"? Does that include my pocket knife if I carry it into "war"?

    Sounds like an anti gun guy wrote the article with all the anti catch phrases he uses....

    Here's all anyone needs to know about media perception:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Journalist guide to guns.jpg 
Views:	91 
Size:	37.9 KB 
ID:	11944

  8. #8
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    Tactical firearm...my P22 has a threaded barrel...check.



    Military grade assault rifle...my Mosin was issued by the Soviet Army in 1943...check.



    Precision battlefield sniper rifle...I bought a $60 scout scope for my mosin...check.



    Instrument of war...mosin comes with bayonet...check.



    The bayonet also doubles as a screwdriver, so if I lose the headspace tool I can break down the rifle. It has two uses and is black which makes it tactical.



    I'm so operator.
    No lasers? Rookie.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    ADA County, ID
    Posts
    605
    As of five years ago, a guy could purchase an m-16 with a m203 granade launcher for 5k in Los Angeles with zero paper work and no background check.

    This posting is for informational porposes only, no implied or actual violation of Federal, State, or local, laws have been committed by said poster or any known individual past or present.

  10. #10
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doug
    Posts
    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    No lasers? Rookie.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


    I make up for it by placing the back of the slide directly against the tip of my nose.
    Last edited by wimwag; 08-26-2014 at 01:01 PM.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    No lasers? Rookie.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Maybe has the wife holding a laser and rangefinder?

  12. #12
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    I make up for it by placing the back of the slide directly against the tip of my nose.
    Lmao that got a chuckle.

    You win. You are operator status.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  13. #13
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    RTD Editorial: Stonewalling — inexcusable

    Pretty good editorial:
    Chesterfield seems to have set the best example for cooperative transparency; that’s been the Editorial Department’s experience, too. By contrast Henrico, Hanover and Richmond exhibited what Bowes calls “strong initial resistance” to providing information asked for under the state’s Freedom of Information Act. They also utterly refused to disclose how many machine guns and sniper rifles they possess.
    Gosh, you mean our public servants have Machine Guns?

    I like the closing comment:
    The public has a right to know how its tax dollars are being used. Whether an agency obtains its gear free through the Pentagon, or buys it off the shelf, the taxpayers are picking up the tab.

    What’s more, law-enforcement agencies act only because the public authorizes them to do so. They have no authority to use force, except that granted to them by the citizens. The fact that they sometimes must use force against individual members of the citizenry does not change the fundamental relationship: Government employees work for the public, and should answer to the public. Period.

    That goes double when the citizens are buying the weapons that the police might one day use against them.
    No kidding.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Pretty good editorial:


    Gosh, you mean our public servants have Machine Guns?

    I like the closing comment:


    No kidding.
    Well said. +1

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •