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Do you carry either concealed or open carry with one in the chamber?

JustaShooter

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Jul 26, 2013
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There is arguably no such thing as an <scare-quotes>accidental discharge</scare-quotes> given our care and attention to the four precepts of gun safety.

All guns are LOADED until they are not. Cover with the MUZZLE that only which would be destroyed. Keep your finger off the TRIGGER. Know your TARGET and what is beyond.

There may be negilgent discharges.

There are no accidents with a round chambered

I would agree were it not for equipment malfunctions - see last years recall of the Springfield Armory XDs for an example in recent memory. In that case, the XDs could, through no fault of the person handling the firearm, discharge when chambering a round. So, as long as the above rules were followed and nothing bad happened, that could be termed an accidental or unintentional discharge, but I could not agree that it would be negligent (assuming you were not aware of the issue / recall and had not yet sent it in to be fixed.)
 

azcdlfred

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It is rare, but has anyone had an accidental discharge because you had one in the chamber? Share your experiences.
It's not just rare - it has most likely never happened with a modern pistol. Back in the single action revolver days where the firing pin would rest on the primer of a chambered round, any bump could cause the gun to go bang. That's why the smart people only loaded their 6 shooter with 5 rounds and let the hammer down on an empty chamber.

Modern revolvers have eliminated that issue and semi-autos don't have that issue, and all but the cheapest pistols have a drop safety.

And.....There is no such thing as an "accidental" discharge. Any unintentional discharge is the result of human negligence.

In a modern pistol a chambered round will never fire unless the safety is disengaged and the trigger is pulled. A properly maintained pistol with a chambered round with the gun properly seated in the correct holster cannot discharge.

However a pistol not holstered and stuffed in your pocket or purse with all the keys and other junk that is in your pocket has a good chance of the trigger being pulled when you don't want it to happen.

Modern pistols are designed to be carried with one in the chamber. As others have pointed out, in a self defense situation you have very little time to react and stop your aggressor. With a properly carried pistol and a round chambered it will take at least a second to go from holster to sights on target. Chambering a round in the process will add at least another second. You will most likely have lost the fight before you get that round chambered.

Also, the decision to shoot should have been made the day you bought your pistol. It's not something to decide when attacked. Carrying a pistol with no round in the chamber indicates hesitation to use the gun.

Fred
 
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MackTheKnife

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Oct 10, 2007
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198
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
At this time I only Conceal Carry and do NOT have one in the pipe. I plan to shift my carry to Open Carry in the immediate future but will still not carry one in the pipe.

We have good reason as well as others do to want to be sure to protect ourselves. We (mama and I) do Dealer Exchanges (run vehicles for dealers when the car sold is at another dealer). We may be riding together or in different vehicles depending on the transaction. Often we have quite large checks (never cash other than personal cash) and often cross state lines, stopping at filling stations, fast food and out-of-state plates.

So far, other than Maryland all the other states are gun friendly and reciprocity works for us.
What benefit do you see in not carrying one in the chamber? I can't see the reason why you would.
 

Ron_O

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Aug 24, 2014
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Las Vegas
I can think of a couple of different reasons for not chambering a round.

If you have only a single handgun that you'll be using either for OC or CCW then one of these may be moot. Having just one gun would mean that you should be practiced to death and totally familiar with that firearm, to the point of 'no thinking, only acting on instinct' in any defensive situation.

But I think what the OP is not saying is that he relies on situational awareness. Consider the person who's gone decades without carrying, and staying alive in the process. Those people generally avoid edgy situations and feel they'll have plenty of time to prepare/react should something go awry. I tend to fall into that category. I'm just happy to have a gun on board, chambered or not. If I've gotten myself into a situation where I don't have time to chamber a round then my head's been buried pretty far up my ass for that given moment. Let me add, create DISTANCE and chamber a round.

No need to pounce me for that, just an observation.

Add to that if a guy is open carrying and some punk manages to snatch the firearm. Imagine his dismay as he points your empty chamber at you and makes his demands. To quote Billy Jack, "My right foot is going to kick you on the left side of your head and there's NOTHING that you can do about it" (pp). LOL that's indeed a possibility. Have you ever looked at a cop and told yourself that you could have his gun before he ever knew it was coming? I've done it since I was a kid, and I'm one of the good guys.

But the other angle is if you have several different types of handguns. DA revolvers are point and squeeze, no thought needed. But autos bring their own equations, depending on model. Safety? Single action? DA/SA? Up until now I never cared to own or consider an auto as a primary protection unit. I've always trusted the simplicity and reliability of a DA revolver. I've always been concerned about the reliability of an auto. I was never concerned about a chambered round in a revolver simply because that hammer was resting down (no spring fatigue as well). A DA is a total no-brainer in an adrenaline filled gut reaction panic situation (for me or my gal).

But when I start carrying with a hammer back I start considering the possibilities. What if that safety is inadvertently left in the wrong position? Do I TRUST the safety? What if the gun takes a blow? If you're someone who's life is filled with relatively safe surroundings all of the time then you may just opt to keep the pipe dry while keeping your eyes open. In those cases, better to have a gun than not, which is how a lot of people feel. Protection is a split second snap of the chamber away.

But if you DO have several different types of handguns, think of how they differ. We have a variety of guns in every sort of action. The shotgun is a home protection pump with a chambered round with safety on. I have to visually remind myself of the safety. Big game rifles are standard bolt action. We have two Beretta 92xx handguns that have their unique hammer down safety features. That model is a DA/SA. Once the hammer is down and safe with a round in the chamber I'll take the safety off so it's effectively a revolver action on the first round. Point and shoot, no thought of a safety. Great OC gun but too big for a comfy CCW.

But we also have two military 1911's. With those I have to be thinking about squeezing the handle and releasing the safety while that hammer is always locked back. No big if you're prepared for it, but what if I've been carrying the 92's for weeks before that? I'll be squeezing without results. I probably won't be carrying the 1911's. We also have a Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380 which is SA only. I don't like that action for carry. Will I remember the safety? Can I TRUST it? Instead it's hammer down and safety off with the reminder that I need to pull the hammer back, and on that unit it's very easy to do if needed.

So for some the 'rack one in the chamber' mentality may be simpler than thinking about different safeties or actions. The biggest drawback to that in my mind is the SOUND it makes if you're trying to be stealth. Pulling a hammer back can be fairly innocuous in a tense situation.

The handguns we have were inherited as a result of a passing family member so they're not my first choice for carry. I prefer a true DA/SA that's point and shoot ready without any sort of safety. If I end up with an all around favorite such as a Glock 17 or some type of Sig then I may train into it to the point that I don't care about a hammer-back-safety-on situation. I still lack trust for autos but am quickly coming up to speed.

So chamber empty is great for the guy or gal who's just happy to have a gun around where in the past they did not. I can understand why they'd prefer it. Situational awareness should ALWAYS be your primary form of protection. But if you know your gun and can act instinctively in every situation because you are well trained and practiced, keep that extra round in the chamber. Racking a round can be extremely difficult with an overtly sweaty pair of hands. Soak your hands in water and try it out.

Besides that obvious speed advantage, that extra round MAY just come in handy...
 

twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
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Every gun I carry is ready to have it's trigger pulled to fire. No safety. No cambering rounds etc.
When the time comes when my families life is about to be snuffed out, I will not add hurdles in my way to protect them.
Even my most reliable guns have had a FTF loading the very first round due to not racking the slide just right.
There's no way I'd gamble with my loved one's lives on that.... especially considering how high stressed the situation would be.
 

MAC702

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...create DISTANCE and chamber a round...

I'm already carrying a firearm in case all other options have been taken away. If I have the ability to be so situationally aware that I know when to chamber a round (assuming I can do so in a way where others don't think I'm the bad guy), I just choose rather not to go there. Or if I have the ability to create enough distance to chamber a round, I'm not planning on going back.

I still maintain that the most important reason to already be chambered is because it is SAFER. You are more likely to induce a malfunction or handle a firearm unsafely while in the process of loading it, especially under stress.
 
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twoskinsonemanns

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I'm already carrying a firearm in case all other options have been taken away. If I have the ability to be so situationally aware that I know when to chamber a round (assuming I can do so in a way where others don't think I'm the bad guy), I just choose rather not to go there. Or if I have the ability to create enough distance to chamber a round, I'm not planning on going back.

I still maintain that the most important reason to already be chambered is because it is SAFER. You are more likely to induce a malfunction or handle a firearm unsafely while in the process of loading it, especially under stress.

While the most important reason for me is my families defense rather than safety protocols, I agree with your other idea. I probably have time to get away if I have time to fiddle with chambering a round.
 

Alejo6217

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Aug 22, 2014
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Glendale, AZ
After carefully reviewing the replies from other members, I have decided to carry one in the chamber while carrying openly. I agree that most modern pistol will not go off on their own as long as the safety is ON. That is one of my biggest fears!
 

jackrockblc

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Jul 13, 2014
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Location
Jefferson County, CO
You are more likely to induce a malfunction or handle a firearm unsafely while in the process of loading it, especially under stress.

This is, ultimately (well before I was an OCDO member) what made me decide to carry. I went through the stages of building up my training and comfort level, though. I wore it around the house with no magazine and an empty chamber. Then with an empty magazine. Then with a full magazine and empty chamber. Then finally fully loaded and ready to fire. That process took me about 7 weeks, and the last two phases had me carrying outdoors as well (kinda pointless to carry an unloaded firearms outside). Now, I carry ready to rock at all times I can, in or outside. I have a Walther PPQ, so no external safety, but I do have a kydex holster that covers the trigger completely.
 

MAC702

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While the most important reason for me is my families defense rather than safety protocols,....
Yes, I had intended to be more clear that the safety included taking care of defensive needs with a weapon that was not in a malfunctioned state and putting a round into a bad guy (if needed) instead of your own hand while trying to manipulate it under stress.
 

azcdlfred

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Dec 10, 2006
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Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Every gun I carry is ready to have it's trigger pulled to fire. No safety.
Disengaging a safety during presentation does not decrease your speed whatsoever. Been there. Done that. Not having the safety engaged when holstering can be deadly. I watched a fellow student shoot himself in the leg because he failed to engage the safety on his 1911 during re-holstering plus he committed the cardinal sin of having his finger on the trigger.

When I started training seriously I was carrying a 1911. Going from slide safety engaged to disengaged was all part of bringing my sights on the target. No wasted time. An automatic thing - no thinking involved. All part of a fast and smooth presentation. Training and practice are recommended to acquire the necessary muscle memory.

Just like owning a guitar doesn't make you a rock star, simply owning a gun doesn't make you a gunfighter.

Fred
 

azcdlfred

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After carefully reviewing the replies from other members, I have decided to carry one in the chamber while carrying openly. I agree that most modern pistol will not go off on their own as long as the safety is ON. That is one of my biggest fears!
I highly recommend getting training on how to USE your pistol, not just carry your pistol. My favorite is Front Sight, but here in Arizona we have Gunsite founded by Col. Jeff Cooper. I have trained at both places. The techniques are the same.

Knowing how to safely operate your pistol's safety is critical. If your gun has an external safety it's not an ornament and it's meant to be used. Engaging and disengaging during presentation does not slow you down and should be as automatic as zipping up your fly. If you have a pistol where the external safety is difficult to operate, consider getting another pistol. Your life may depend on it.

I am also an NRA instructor and range safety officer. If any of you live in the Tucson area and go to the Tucson Mountain Park shooting range on a day that I am volunteering, I'll be happy to share what I have learned from basic skills to proper stance and presentation for FREE. It's what I enjoy doing.

Fred
 
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MAC702

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Disengaging a safety during presentation does not decrease your speed whatsoever. ...

I had assumed she was referring to sidearms that have no manual safety, but you are absolutely correct and it should be clarified as you have done. Thanks.

The NRA Personal Protection class teaches to disengage the safety during the rotation of the draw stroke, as close-quarters can sometimes have you shooting before extension and sight-alignment. Again, disengaging the safety during the rotation adds ZERO time to a shot that goes downrange.

There is no excuse for not engaging a single-action's safety immediately after firing or deciding that you do not need to fire, whether you are going to holster immediately or not, and certainly no excuse for holstering a single-action pistol without its manual safety engaged.
 

XD40sc

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Mar 31, 2013
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One in the chamber or I don't consider the gun loaded.

Accidental discharge happens when a gun fails in some manner, be it dropped, or just defective.

Negligent discharges happen when the booger hook is on the bang switch when it shouldn't be.
 

MAC702

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So would the OP carry a revolver with the hammer over an empty chamber?

Well, that's a different issue as it does not slow down the first shot being fired, so for revolvers that need that measure of safety you lose a round of capacity, but not speed of service.
 

MackTheKnife

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Oct 10, 2007
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Well, that's a different issue as it does not slow down the first shot being fired, so for revolvers that need that measure of safety you lose a round of capacity, but not speed of service.
I was being facetious. I can't imagine why anyone would carry any gun without a round in the chamber.
 

TexasOC

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Texas
Carry whichever way makes you comfortable. With more experience and familiarity with your firearm/holster combo, carrying chamber-loaded will eventually become the obvious choice.
 
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MackTheKnife

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After carefully reviewing the replies from other members, I have decided to carry one in the chamber while carrying openly. I agree that most modern pistol will not go off on their own as long as the safety is ON. That is one of my biggest fears!
The safety on is not the determining factor. Your finger on the trigger is. Not all for guns have safeties.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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There is only one gun I carry with out a round in the chamber that's is a Jennings J-23 22lr. They have a rep for going off if dropped.

But then I only carry it for shooting trapped fur bearers or coyotes caught by the hounds.

All my other hand guns are carried with a round in the chamber or with my modern revolvers fully loaded.

I have seen way to many people who carry with out one in the chamber when the pressure is on, try and shoot before they chamber a round.

Then when the gun doesn't fire they remember to chamber a round. That could be very detrimental in a self defense situation.
 
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