How is virginia not a top 10 gun friendly state?

Grapeshot · Aug 31, 2014

fjpro2a said:
As almost everyone has mentioned, different people or groups may rank the States in different order. Recently, I did my own "unprofessional" ranking, and had Virginia around 17 or 18, not 21. Virginia may have been a leader at one time, but let's face it, it has slipped. In my opinion, it is partially due to those OCer's in Virginia exhibiting a somewhat superior view on this forum that "they know best." By telling us what is important and what is not, they overlook the suggestions made by all of us to achieve "Constitutional Carry" based on the wording in the 2nd Amendment. Don't get me wrong; we should all be indebted to those in Virginia who have done so much for the cause. But as in politics, the office seems to change the person more than the other way around.

Don't see that the participants in a cause or on a forum change the laws/statutes that govern us.

Constitutional Carry may be the holy grail, but it is not the purpose of this forum. OCDO is is about normalizing every day OC as we good about our regular, daily routines. Little importance is placed on CC, except as a personal option.

Insofar as Virginian's having a "superior view" and "knowing what is best", I'd say that you are probably right in instances concerning Va laws and their effect on us. Who else would you listen to on this.....someone from *over there?*

BTW - the owners of this site are both attorney's living in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Add to that the VCDL is arguably the leader/model for most all other state level grassroots RKBA organizations.

Virginian's walk tall!

peter nap · Aug 31, 2014

fjpro2a said:
As almost everyone has mentioned, different people or groups may rank the States in different order. Recently, I did my own "unprofessional" ranking, and had Virginia around 17 or 18, not 21. Virginia may have been a leader at one time, but let's face it, it has slipped. In my opinion, it is partially due to those OCer's in Virginia exhibiting a somewhat superior view on this forum that "they know best." By telling us what is important and what is not, they overlook the suggestions made by all of us to achieve "Constitutional Carry" based on the wording in the 2nd Amendment. Don't get me wrong; we should all be indebted to those in Virginia who have done so much for the cause. But as in politics, the office seems to change the person more than the other way around.

Actually...There are very few forum members that have any political influence at all. We have opinions, very strong ones at times. CHP's for instance. I could care less how many forum members have CHP's as long as they give OC equal standing. OC is as close as we have to Constitutional carry and will be for some time to come.

Moving politics takes a lot of time and clout and that doesn't come cheap. We don't have a single politician that I would call really pro gun or pro 2A....fortunately, the majority are just less anti than others.

I agree with Grapeshot that VCDL is the lobby here, however until they recognize all gun owners as equals, that power will never be fully realized. Too much infighting among the various groups.

MAC702 · Aug 31, 2014

Grapeshot said:
...Constitutional Carry may be the holy grail...

For that matter, states like AZ with "Constitutional Carry" actually have more restrictions on those who open carry than states like NV, which does not have "Constitutional Carry," but has more open carry freedoms than any other state I can think of.

Marco · Aug 31, 2014

NV, which does not have "Constitutional Carry," but has more open carry freedoms than any other state I can think of.

Having dual residency in Nv/Va I believe VA has NV beat.

Iirc, State law in NV prohibits carry in a child care facility (public or private)
VA doesn't.

Also, iirc carrying while at a Las Vegas city park hasn't been sorted out.
Again VA doesn't.

While VA does have a few stupid laws regarding OC for none permission slip holders, (can't carry with a mag with over 20rds inserted, no threaded barrles in some localities, no carry during bow/muzzle loading season while hunting, no carry inside GAB) I can't think of any that top those two from NV, as they both totally disarm you when you are likely very vulnerable (likely with your family/small children).

marshaul · Aug 31, 2014

Virginia would be a lot better if National Forests were OC-friendly.

The Truth · Aug 31, 2014

Marco said:
no carry during bow/muzzle loading season while hunting, no carry inside GAB)

I did not know that about bow/muzzleloader season. I basically only gun hunt anyway, but that does seem a bit ridiculous. Let me guess... to keep people from "cheating?" Got a cite?

Also does GAB mean Government Affiliated Building?

Grapeshot · Aug 31, 2014

The Truth said:
I did not know that about bow/muzzleloader season. I basically only gun hunt anyway, but that does seem a bit ridiculous. Let me guess... to keep people from "cheating?" Got a cite?

Also does GAB mean Government Affiliated Building?

GAB = General Assembly Building.

In Virginia one may OC or CC in the GAB and Capital Building if they have a CHP - that is based on a Joint Rules Committee recommendation..............on which there was never a proper vote.

Can't carry at all in the Senate chamber of the Capital Building though- they have a rule against that.

MAC702 · Sep 1, 2014

Marco said:
Having dual residency in Nv/Va I believe VA has NV beat.

Iirc, State law in NV prohibits carry in a child care facility (public or private)
VA doesn't.

Also, iirc carrying while at a Las Vegas city park hasn't been sorted out.
Again VA doesn't.

While VA does have a few stupid laws regarding OC for none permission slip holders, (can't carry with a mag with over 20rds inserted, no threaded barrles in some localities, no carry during bow/muzzle loading season while hunting, no carry inside GAB) I can't think of any that top those two from NV, as they both totally disarm you when you are likely very vulnerable (likely with your family/small children).

There are exceptions to the prohibitions in schools and child care facilities that are easily met if you choose your facility carefully. Regardless, there appears to be a complete lack of enforcement of this law.

Yes, we have some LOCAL enforcement issues in the Las Vegas area, but the STATE law backs us up and we are waiting for our test cases.

VA has some oddities as well, just in different areas. I choose my words carefully to show that a state doesn't have any betters. I left plenty of interpretation for ties because of the differences that will cancel each other out.

I'm just showing that rankings are largely arbitrary on how factors are weighted.

fjpro2a · Sep 1, 2014

You are right!!

Grapeshot and peter nap, you guys, as usual, are right. Although both responses sounded somewhat defensive, you have accomplished more than most. And I don't just mean you two specifically, but the entire VCDL organization. It is, indeed, the leader/model. Just a couple of responses along with a suggestion.
#1 response - Insofar as Virginian's having a "superior view" and "knowing what is best", I'd say that you are probably right in instances concerning Va laws and their effect on us. Who else would you listen to on this.....someone from *over there? - I am also referring to instances not concerning VA law. Plus, maybe someone from "over there" may have a different perspective that can shed light.
#2 response - BTW - the owners of this site are both attorney's living in the Commonwealth of Virginia. - That statement is not necessarily a plus, if you get my drift. Just joking. In any event, this honestly sounded unnecessarily defensive.
#1 suggestion - It does seem as if Virginia is slipping backwards resulting in a rating of # 21. Being rated # 21 may be erroneous, but the trend is unmistakeable. My suggestion is that you guys should not feel embarrassed by "reaching out" to us in other States for any and all data that could improve open carry in any State, including Virginia. I bet, with everyone's help, we can put Virginia back in the top 10. Heck, I may even be willing to reconsider Virginia when I retire in a few more years. Please, no nasty responses about me limiting it to northern Virginia. One day, a major accomplishment on my bucket list will have been reached when I partake in an open carry breakfast with you guys.

Grapeshot · Sep 1, 2014

fjpro2a said:
Grapeshot and peter nap, you guys, as usual, are right. Although both responses sounded somewhat defensive, you have accomplished more than most. And I don't just mean you two specifically, but the entire VCDL organization. It is, indeed, the leader/model. Just a couple of responses along with a suggestion.
#1 response - Insofar as Virginian's having a "superior view" and "knowing what is best", I'd say that you are probably right in instances concerning Va laws and their effect on us. Who else would you listen to on this.....someone from *over there? - I am also referring to instances not concerning VA law. Plus, maybe someone from "over there" may have a different perspective that can shed light.
#2 response - BTW - the owners of this site are both attorney's living in the Commonwealth of Virginia. - That statement is not necessarily a plus, if you get my drift. Just joking. In any event, this honestly sounded unnecessarily defensive.
#1 suggestion - It does seem as if Virginia is slipping backwards resulting in a rating of # 21. Being rated # 21 may be erroneous, but the trend is unmistakeable. My suggestion is that you guys should not feel embarrassed by "reaching out" to us in other States for any and all data that could improve open carry in any State, including Virginia. I bet, with everyone's help, we can put Virginia back in the top 10. Heck, I may even be willing to reconsider Virginia when I retire in a few more years. Please, no nasty responses about me limiting it to northern Virginia. One day, a major accomplishment on my bucket list will have been reached when I partake in an open carry breakfast with you guys.

I think you will find VCDL is willing, as I am personally, to listen to the thoughts of others and adapt them to the benefit of our organizations and the Commonwealth of Virginia. We have even made good use of some of the anti's words and deeds. We study the laws of other states.

First order of the day will be to get rid of anti freedom puppets in the executive branch of our state government. I really believe that with strong pro leadership, Virginia would see constitutional carry, adding state agencies to preemption, legalize carry in National Forests, and remove K-12 schools + universities from gun restrictions. I'd like to see major promotions on Take a Kid Hunting and Take a Kid to the Range. We may be fighting the battles of today, but it is our children who will need to be educated/forearmed for tomorrow.

Marco · Sep 1, 2014

The Truth 087391 said:
I didn't know that about bow/muzzleloader season. I basically only gun hunt anyway, but that does seem a bit ridiculous. Let me guess... to keep people from "cheating?" Got a cite?

Also does GAB mean Government Affiliated Building?

The no carry for none permission slip holders during B/ml season (while hunting) is clearly posted on DGIF site. (Will post a cite later)

GRAPESHOT answered your other question.

Mac, I agree totally agree, completely arbitrary.

How is virginia not a top 10 gun friendly state?

Grapeshot

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peter nap

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MAC702

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Marco

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marshaul

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The Truth

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Grapeshot

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MAC702

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fjpro2a

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Grapeshot

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Marco

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